Snowboarding for the first time

A trick i was taught is to point your leading hand where you want to go. Do this and you'll naturally put pressure on the correct edges. For example, if you're on your toe edge, and want to turn the other way, If you point to your heelside, you should naturally put your weight on your front heel edge while still being on your rear toe edge, initiating the turn. You're not so much turning with your upper body, you're just getting the feet to do the right thing without having to think so much about it. Some instructors (i'm not an instructor, FYI) don't like this, because you shouldn't open your chest and wind-up your upper body to make turns. I also agree with the people who said to get on something a little steep. I tried to learn on east coast ice, and the beginner slope just wasn't enough, after 10 frustrating minutes of falling on hardpack because i was moving too slow to figure it out, i hit the lifts and picked it up very quick.

Willa wrote: I must completely disagree. A proper turn is initiated with the down hill foot by applying pressure to the edge. Think of it like rocking onto your foot (toe) when slab climbing, a similar motion will initiate a toe-side turn. By doing the same thing and applying pressure to your down hill heel will initiate a heel side turn. You don't want to be the guy swinging his arms around trying to turn, only to flail into an innocent bystander.

Willa, I was referring to the technique described above by Larry S. I was just too lazy to write it all out :)

Always be turning. That is, be on an edge. If you ride flat when learning, you're sure to flat spin and catch an edge. Ow.

Steve Bond wrote:Always be turning. That is, be on an edge. If you ride flat when learning, you're sure to flat spin and catch an edge. Ow.

Can still happen the first couple of years I found. Also a very quick way to a physics lesson on rotational acceleration.

From a dirtbag climber perspective who can't afford a splitty, don't do it, give skiing another chance - it will be way more useful for climbing. The key for having fun learning is to spend few bucks more on a high quality demo equipment, not P.O.S. rentals (same goes true for snowboards too).

Exactly what was it that made skiing so awful?

Mark Felber wrote:Exactly what was it that made skiing so awful?

I have floppy ankles. Hard to explain, but turning is a challenge when you keep crossing skis. No amount of instruction could keep me for either going duck footed or penguin footed with my skis. I feel like i need something more solid so both my feet are working together, thus snowboarding. It's either that or bobsledding, and let's be honest, no one picks up chicks that way. (kidding? Kinda.)

Sounds like typical oversize rental boots that don't support your ankles. Lots of rental operations will put the customer in a loose fitting pair of ski boots just to get them out the door fast, ignoring the fact that the customer won't be able to ski in the loose boots.

If you do rent snowboard equipment, spend a little extra time and cash at a rental shop that will take a few extra minutes to explain how the boots should fit, and put you in a boot that fits properly (which, for ski boots at any rate, is a lot snugger than most beginner skiers realize).

" expect to fall alot",, is not a vision I find agreeable at all. I've seen snowboarders fall more in one day than I think I did in 10 years total of skiing. Painful,,,,I'll be staying on my long boards for snow sports another year.

Buttshield all the way!!!

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Here's an update of some progress. If anyone wants to offer any pointers if I'm making common beginner mistakes that would be great.

Day 1, took a group (of 5) lesson. I fell a lot, but nothing really hurt badly, just frustrating to fall. The number one reason i fell was bailing in order not to run into someone. The number two reason was because of turning. Hopefully someone can visualize this from how I explain it, but when trying to turn around from a traverse to head the opposite direction, I'd start to edge and then the back part of the board would start to come around really fast, and instead of traversing the opposite direction I'd be going goofy footed in the direction I was just going. This almost exclusively happens when I'm trying to turn on my heel edge, my toe edge is rarely a problem. I've actually gotten pretty damn good at skid stopping on my toe edge.

So...common problem or not? Any tips for it for tomorrow's day out?

Evan, when you start your turn, are you starting on your heel or toe edge, i.e. which edge are you traversing on before your turn?

Wehling wrote:Evan, when you start your turn, are you starting on your heel or toe edge, i.e. which edge are you traversing on before your turn?

90 percent of the time it's when i'm traversing on my toe edge and switching to my heels to turn

Evan Sanders wrote: 90 percent of the time it's when i'm traversing on my toe edge and switching to my heels to turn

From what I'm picturing, what you are doing is not easy. So let me take a step back and tell you the method I teach people for beginner turns.

I'm skipping a lot of ground-work here, so this may not flow perfectly with your muscle memory, but let me know if this sounds familiar to you.

First your body position should be correct, shins pressing against the front of your boot, weight on the balls of your feet, knees bent, hips FORWARD over the toe edge of your board and your upper body standing upright, shoulders relaxed, hands roughly at your sides.

Now for the turn. While traversing across the slope on your toeside (with your speed in check), the balls of your feet are pressing into the snow and your heels are elevated. To initiate your turn, gently begin to lower your leading heel (Normal = Left, Goofy = right) towards the snow. Your board will begin to turn into the fall line here. Start to lower your rear heel until your board is pointing downhill, into the fall line and you are standing flatfooted. This is the scary part because you pick up speed but try not to rush it. Begin to lift up on your front toes (feel your toenails press the top of your boot), this steers you out of the fall line. Next press up with your rear toes to finish the turn and control your speed.

Again for a toe-to-heelside turn:
1) press your front heel towards the snow
2) press your back heel towards the snow until you are flatfooted
3) lift up your front toes
4) finish your turn by lifting up your back toes.

I use this to teach all turns on greens, on blues I start to incorporate use of the knees more.

There's a lot more that goes into it, but it is hard over typed words. Let me know if this helps or sounds familiar.

A more direct address of your question though, usually if the tail of your board is not following the nose, you either have too much weight on your front foot (sounds like your problem) or you are using your back foot to force the board around.

Wehling wrote: From what I'm picturing, what you are doing is not easy. So let me take a step back and tell you the method I teach people for beginner turns. I'm skipping a lot of ground-work here, so this may not flow perfectly with your muscle memory, but let me know if this sounds familiar to you. First your body position should be correct, shins pressing against the front of your boot, weight on the balls of your feet, knees bent, hips FORWARD over the toe edge of your board and your upper body standing upright, shoulders relaxed, hands roughly at your sides. Now for the turn. While traversing across the slope on your toeside (with your speed in check), the balls of your feet are pressing into the snow and your heels are elevated. To initiate your turn, gently begin to lower your leading heel (Normal = Left, Goofy = right) towards the snow. Your board will begin to turn into the fall line here. Start to lower your rear heel until your board is pointing downhill, into the fall line and you are standing flatfooted. This is the scary part because you pick up speed but try not to rush it. Begin to lift up on your front toes (feel your toenails press the top of your boot), this steers you out of the fall line. Next press up with your rear toes to finish the turn and control your speed. Again for a toe-to-heelside turn: 1) press your front heel towards the snow 2) press your back heel towards the snow until you are flatfooted 3) lift up your front toes 4) finish your turn by lifting up your back toes. I use this to teach all turns on greens, on blues I start to incorporate use of the knees more. There's a lot more that goes into it, but it is hard over typed words. Let me know if this helps or sounds familiar.

Before I read that I was going to say that you can't learn how to snowboard on the internet. OK, I'm still going to say it - "You can't learn to snowboard on the internet!"

I'd like to add one thing: You are never really supposed to be flat footed. I think what wehling meant is that there is a point in the middle of the turn where you have found the right amount of torsion of the curve in your board so that your feet are planar. That is to say, they are level with respect to one another... but they are still not flat on the ground.

Evan, it helps to think of the board as part of your body. You have to manipulate it in order for it to work properly. Just like when you flag in climbing.

Most people do a sort of quick 180 onto their heels and just skid on their entire edge until they are going slow enough to start traversing in the opposite direction. This is not turning. This is not snowboarding.

Think of your edge as a tool and the snow as a canvas, piece of clay, whatever. You are literally carving out a curve in the snow. That curve is going to have a similar radius to the radius of the curve of your board. Lifting your lead toe is flexing the board. You are simultaneously twisting the board, transferring your weight and opening your hips into the fall line so that the front of your heal edge begins to carve into the snow. If you initiate properly, the rest of the edge will fall into that groove that you've already made.

I'll say it again - You can't learn to snowboard on the internet! It is probably even harder than learning to climb on the internet!

Powder + experienced friends = :)

My friends dragged me down black and double black diamonds my very first time, but I didn't have to worry about falling because powder doesn't hurt!

Ryan Williams wrote:I'll say it again - You can't learn to snowboard on the internet! It is probably even harder than learning to climb on the internet!

I apparently can barely learn to snowboard in real life either...but at least taking snowboarding advice over the internet probably won't kill me, as opposed to climbing. Subtle, but it makes all the difference.

Going back out tomorrow, I'll try and keep in mind what everyone's said. Group lessons are kind of a cluster f*ck, but it's all i can afford. I've only been on green's so far, even though i don't feel prepared for a blue maybe doing one will help.

How do people get over a fear of speed? Is it kind of like climbing with people with a fear of heights where you just have to get over it and get used to it, or is there any way to lessen that feeling?

Be aware that you have a blind spot as you are snowboarding. At least that was what the snowboarder lectured me as I was laying flat on my back after a high speed collision with him.

Luckily, he was a lot bigger than I am. I would have felt terrible if it was a kid. It was like a football massacre without pads, except a lot faster.

He collided from slightly behind me, and I will definitely be aware of snowboarder's blind spots in the future.

But don't let that stop you from high speeds after you become proficient. Just be aware of your blind spot.

It sounds like your problems on skis are related to boots too big (as someone mentioned), and a nonsupportive footbed. I had my boots fitted at Bentgate in Golden and they fitted me with an awesome add on footbed. Maybe call them and ask for advice.

Have fun!

Ryan Williams wrote: I'd like to add one thing: You are never really supposed to be flat footed. I think what wehling meant is that there is a point in the middle of the turn where you have found the right amount of torsion of the curve in your board so that your feet are planar. That is to say, they are level with respect to one another... but they are still not flat on the ground.

Ryan, I'm not sure where you are/were an instructor but I have taught many, many people to ride and I do teach them to stand flat on a board. If you do not flatten your board ON LOW ANGLE TERRAIN then you try to transition edges too quickly and make ugly turns which often result in a fall. You only are on a flat board long enough to roll onto the opposite edge. Also, when on a flat board, you should be pointing almost exactly down the fall line and thus cannot catch an edge. The flat board helps to not rush a turn (which creates a stronger feeling of control) and also helps people face and conquer the fear of acceleration. YMMV

Ryan Williams wrote: You are literally carving out a curve in the snow.

Evan, please don't think of carving or attempt to carve. There are 4 types of snowboard turns, stick to the basic skidded turns (what you are already attempting) and you will be better off. Basic and Dynamic carved turns will come once you get the basics.

I will agree with Ryan, you cannot learn to snowboard from the internet, but hearing words of advice can go a long way, and that's all these are intended to be. Just trying to help is all. Have fun and good luck.