Hauling questions...ect...

You know climbing should be simpler not hauling.
And hauling can be a daunting task.
We all know that carrying the haul bag is out of the question.
So we resort to using a pully and a pair of acenders.

My question here is how is the haul bag handled during a retreat?
So it must be unweighted, be off the acenders, be lowered with a belay device.
Well that seems easy enough when coming down 25 meters from a tree.
Not so simple when retreating from a multipitch route.
Maby some sort of escaping tatics will be included when the rope reaches its end.
With any thing past vertical their will still be a haul bag floting around in space out there.

Is it even possible to retreat with only two ropes?
Even when their may be penjilums and roofs invovled?
Is it possible to retreat with basic equpiment?

What if I want to rappel a big wall?
With a few ropes and a portaledge and the minium amount of equpiment.

What kinds of tools and equipment should I need?
How is this done?
Any masters on the subject care to chime in...

Big Walls by Long / Middendorf is the first place to start. " ridding the pig" is the easiest technique for rapping with a haullbag because it basically takes the bag out of the equation.

Fix both ropes at the top anchor. The first one down will have to rap on one rope and reverse "lead" a roof with pro or reverse the pendulum to stay on route. The bottom end of the second rope is clipped to the first rappeller to use as a tagline which is then fixed to the lower anchor. The guy on top pulls the rap rope, takes the top of the "tagline" and clips it to the pig then lowers it on the "rapline" as the guy on the lower anchor pulls it in. He'll have to re-clip the pro under the roof to retrieve them as he raps.

A separate tagline (3rd rope) would simplify things and the time savings would be more than worth its' weight. Use it to pull the pig in as it's being lowered. It would also be used to control the wild swings on its' way up.

Shane
I have read that book.
And a few others also.
Here is a comprehensive list of my climbing instructional library.
Mountaineering freedom of the hills / seventh edition
Rock Climbing: Mastering Basic Skils by Craig Luebben
Bigwall climbing elite technique by Jared Ogden
Bigwalls by John Middendorf and John Long
Climbing Self-rescue Improvising solutions for serious situations by
Andy Tyson and Molly Loomis

The books are packed with usefull information.
It is a challenge to decipher what information to use for the spacifics of rappeling a bigwall with a haul bag.
Think top down.
Think 15-30 pitches in reverse.
Think tree topping.
Think rescue.

JC
Can you talk more about reversing the penjilum.
Wouldn't reversing a penjilum involve a different anchor point?
Example to get to the boot flake woudn't I need to climb over to tribal rite? Or penji over from p15 anchors? And if p15 is past vertical then I may have to do some bolting to get back over?
Also I don't think that I could penji over with the haul bag attached to me.
So I would have to lower it.
Seem like different techniques should be used for each route or pitch sinairio independently.

You seem to have read the books and know all the answers to your questions all ready so what's the point of this thread?

Lowering the pig is really not that big of a deal and you can't learn how to do it on the inturdwebz but if it's that difficult for you to figure out then might I suggest a parachute for the pig?

And please explain the "spacifics" of what a "penjilum" is, "ect"? You have come up with some really interesting "sinairio"s!

Each route would be different so maybe someone who's been at Boot Flake could field that one.

The point of this thread is to attempt to grasp a better understanding of the information I read in the self rescue book and apply that to hauling and lowering a haul bag.
I also need to learn to incorprate the use of pullys into my repitoire
of knowledge.

Yarp your so funny.

I guess It would be kind of diffucilt to understand all this stuff on the web.

jumping fish wrote:The point of this thread is to attempt to grasp a better understanding of the information I read in the self rescue book and apply that to hauling and lowering a haul bag. I also need to learn to incorprate the use of pullys into my repitoire of knowledge.

I own or have read every single book that you listed. Most of those books were written by people highly regarded in their field. Decades of experience, testing, trial and error "ect" went into the information in those books.

What do you think you could possibly learn on the intardnetz, beyond that which is CLEARLY explained, diagrammed, spelled out and illustrated in those fine informational texts?

Seriously, your asking a question about a basic component of big wall climbing that is not easily explained or grasped through text but becomes extremely easy to comprehend in practice. Gravity makes a fine instructor.

Find somebody who knows what they are doing and go climb a wall with them. Or reinvent the wheel on your own.

Point well made Yarp.
Now who wants to author the book on bigwall decending?
And will you please reccomend any other books that I might need to look into or schools that offer course in rappeling for rescues?

For most pitches you can ride the pig. For pretty overhabing stuff one guy down aids the pitch, fixing the rope at the bottom to aid the guy riding the pig to pull into the staion, while the first dude leans and re-raps. For horizontal/very steep pitches it might be necessary to lower the bag out and haul it in. These are all skills you should be able bang out pretty easy.

I've reversed the first few pitches of leaning tower, and it was much less of an ordeal than I had feared.

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jumping fish wrote:

I'd rather have 7 trolls than 7 yarps.