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Dec 17, 2011
Solstice Cave
. Sheldon D
From Fort Collins, Colorado
Joined Feb 24, 2011
70 points
Dec 17, 2011
Mathematical!
Sheldon Deeny wrote:
If you ever check this forum to look at ways to improve your climbing, do yourself a favor and read the book. Or read it again if you already have.


People come to this website to get advice? I thought it was just a place for people to practice their biting sarcasm.
Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Joined Jul 11, 2008
123 points
Administrator
Dec 17, 2011
Relaxing at the P1 belay of Fruit Loops at Rumblin...
Taylor Ogden wrote:
People come to this website to get advice? I thought it was just a place for people to practice their biting sarcasm.

You're thinking of rockclimbing.com. Common mistake.

JL
saxfiend
From Decatur, GA
Joined Nov 14, 2006
4,571 points
Dec 17, 2011
Mathematical!
And we're two for two! Lets keep this ball a rollin'! Finn the Human
From The Land of Ooo
Joined Jul 11, 2008
123 points
Administrator
Dec 17, 2011
Relaxing at the P1 belay of Fruit Loops at Rumblin...
Sheldon Deeny wrote:
Seriously people, if you haven't bought and read and re-read the book, do it.

Sheldon, could you give us the full title and author(s) of this book?

JL
saxfiend
From Decatur, GA
Joined Nov 14, 2006
4,571 points
Dec 17, 2011
Fun jump move to start Reckless Abandon, Summersvi...
its by Dave MacLeod...i think the book is pretty good very general information in my opinion, but i really like his ideas and his blog is fun/useful to read

I am looking forward to the other books he will be coming out with
Philip Lutz
From Akron/Oberlin, Ohio
Joined Jun 25, 2010
191 points
Dec 17, 2011
enjoying the static, grappel and a smoke on Dana.....
reading books?! erik kapec
From prescott, az
Joined Mar 3, 2010
221 points
Dec 18, 2011
Solstice Cave
. Sheldon D
From Fort Collins, Colorado
Joined Feb 24, 2011
70 points
Dec 18, 2011
I think there is a ton of great info in that book, but objectively, it's poorly (not at all?) organized, and it doesn't do a great job of telling you what to do. I imagine it's akin to interpreting the teachings of a cryptic kung fu master. Mike Anderson
From Colorado Springs, CO
Joined Nov 15, 2004
3,094 points
Dec 18, 2011
saxfiend wrote:
You're thinking of rockclimbing.com. Common mistake. JL


And I come here to see people spray about their imagined superiority to rockclimbing.com.

If I want useful information, I pick up a book.
Brian Scoggins
From Boise, ID
Joined Mar 12, 2002
1,088 points
Dec 19, 2011
Mike Anderson wrote:
I think there is a ton of great info in that book, but objectively, it's poorly (not at all?) organized,

It does read like a random selection of his blog posts.

Mike Anderson wrote:
and it doesn't do a great job of telling you what to do. I imagine it's akin to interpreting the teachings of a cryptic kung fu master.

Therein lies its beauty. McCleod understands that he is writing a book that will be read by thousands of different climbers with different strengths and weaknesses. He can't possibly give them the best advice for improving their climbing but he can inspire them to become active participants in their own improvement. Urging someone to investigate different training avenues and inspiring them to tackle their weaknesses is what "9 out of 10" is about and I think this approach is crucial in the long run.
Brendan N. (grayhghost)
From Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined Oct 26, 2006
396 points
Dec 19, 2011
Sheldon Deeny wrote:
All the questions on this forum about "What hangboard/campus routine should I do?" and "How do I get endurance" and blahblahblah would never even be posted if people read the book.



It's a very useful book. But you're a little over the top with the fanboi routine there. Since Dave seems to be, shall we say, "not very knowledgeable" WRT to hangboarding, people who can benefit from it (which is essentially everyone who wants to be stronger, contrary to the oft-repeated advice that you don't need to "train" until 5.13 or whatever) would be well served to ask their hangboarding questions among a group of people that collectively has dozens of years of experience with dedicated hangboarding and proven results from the same.

Good book, deserves a place in every climber's library, but don't rely on it for anything having to do with hangboarding. Why? Because while you can certainly climb harder by honing your technique a bit, ironing out the pyschological factors, etc...those things are relatively quick fixes and can be done in conjunction with something like hangboarding. So it's not a mutually exclusive "one or the other" choice, provided you have the time. And second, building finger strength is the opposite...a slow and laborious process. It takes years and years to get anywhere near your potential, so you might as well get started. And finally, the common theme among these "don't train until 5.xx level" is that they recommend more hard bouldering (in MacCleod's case) or more route climbing in other cases...but if I (like many), bouldered hard year round, my shoulders among other parts would be wrecked or constantly on the verge of chronic issues. Hanging, and to some extent campusing, are very structured and low-risk of injury (chronic or acute) compared to limit bouldering and continue to work the weak link (finger strength) while giving the highly-stressed parts a period of recovery.

You should also be aware that the training culture MacCleod is operating within is quite different from the US. All the talk about board angles and setting problems is from a perspective of people training in a very small facility and/or on small home woodys. For someone training in the typical US climbing gym these are all virtually non-issues. With 4-6 setters, constantly chaning problems, and a variety of wall geometry, it's just a different animal than doing the same dozen problems that you set on your 45 in the garage.
Will S
From Joshua Tree
Joined Nov 15, 2006
1,272 points
Administrator
Dec 19, 2011
Me and the offspring walking back to the car after...
Taylor Ogden wrote:
People come to this website to get advice? I thought it was just a place for people to practice their biting sarcasm.


I visit for both and have found both answers and inspiration.
Jake Jones
From Richmond, VA
Joined Jul 30, 2011
1,005 points
Dec 21, 2011
Given the <18mo climbing, you are probably right in thinking the supporting structures...tendons, etc aren't ready for hangboarding and the like.

I may be a little over-stating the case about everyone benefiting from structured strength work like hangs, for newer climbers it really isn't needed. It just seems like everywhere I turn these days the current fashionable concept is that "people don't really need to train until 5.xx level, they just need to improve their movement", which I don't buy at all. Technique will take you a long way, strength will take you a long way, ignoring one or the other is a fools game.
Will S
From Joshua Tree
Joined Nov 15, 2006
1,272 points


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