Stickclipping a redpoint attempt

Andrew Haag wrote: What should we call all the bolt protected routes .12c and ez'r. Vertical crawling?

Date climbs.

johnL wrote: Many years ago, Kalcario on rc.com said that sport climbing didn't start until 12c. I was butthurt and pissed at his ideas until years later I realized he was right.

This is pretty true. One can quibble about the grade- so as to not exclude the many wonderful 12b's of the world, but the basic concept is on the money.

For a very long time I was a trad climber who wasn't all that excited about sport climbing. i had nothing against it; I just didn't like it as much. This changed once I learned to sport climb properly. I realized that in the past, I wasn't really sport climbing, but was just treating rap-bolted routes like less-significant trad climbs. Once I started actually sport climbing with a sport climber's approach-with the full stick-clip and kneepad wankery- I began to enjoy it much more.

Andrew Haag wrote: More of a fool huh, guess it takes one to know one. Seen way more hurt ankles on the approach. I think it's perfectly fine to stck clip all day long, however if your doing that just cause you dont want a twisted ankle or a ground fall, then you simply havnt been climbing long enough. I dont care what you think,if you climb long enough "talkin years" you are eventually going to deck, especially if you have been counting on a stick to safely get you to the first bolt.

I am very confused by your logic. Care to restate that a bit more clearly?

Andrew Haag wrote: OK new rule, if you can find said stick clip at the crag, I.E. a dead tree branch, your good. IF you must make or buy a stick clip, and leave it at the crag for your projects, Not Cool.

So does this mean that stick clipping is only acceptable in forested areas with natural woody vegetation, but in unethical at desert crags?

Although you are right that in some circumstances it may not be cool to leave a stick-clip at the crag, cluttering up the base all the time.

Andrew Haag wrote: OK new rule, if you can find said stick clip at the crag, I.E. a dead tree branch, your good. IF you must make or buy a stick clip, and leave it at the crag for your projects, Not Cool.

Fuck someone take this dude climbing please! He would be down to try dry tooling if someone invites him.

i agree with johnL and slim. as usual.

Andrew Haag wrote:Generally speaking almost every injury I have seen or heard of would not have been prevented by a stick clip. However I would like to hear stories werew stick clipping saved your ass more so than a good spotter would. I know they exist, just not probable.

Not a good reason not to stick clip the first bolt of a route with hard moves right off the ground and a bad landing.

Be honest with yourself. If you feel it's okay, then do it. If you don't think it's right then practice until you feel comfortable hanging your draws as you go. If you ditch the stick, do it because you feel it's the right thing to do; but don't let some internet tough-guy talk you out of protecting yourself from a ground fall.

Carl Sherven wrote:Be honest with yourself. If you feel it's okay, then do it. If you don't think it's right then practice until you feel comfortable hanging your draws as you go. If you ditch the stick, do it because you feel it's the right thing to do; but don't let some internet tough-guy talk you out of protecting yourself from a ground fall.

thank you...a simple honest answer to a simple request for individual beliefs...have no idea why respect for differences are lost...no need to be harsh...

andrew, your logic is very hard for me to follow. rambling paragraphs and ......i just don't understand what your saying!

ps: who gives a shit. stick clip if you want. answer to no one but yourself.

at some point, usually when enough people bite, it transitions from trolling to fishing with dinamite. damn, i gotta say i am pretty impressed. i think you caught more than your limit for the day son (including this triumphant trout), better hide from the game warden....

and, i gotta say i disagree with darren. that slim guy is completely unreasonable.

Andrew Haag wrote: I appologize, guess I am rambling a bit. All I am trying to say Is that if you stick clip to make it ez'r to climb, that makes sence, If you stick clip for onsight attempts, that makes sence, But stick clipping for a red point burn? If your going to beat the climb into submission stick clipping that first bolt doesnt mitigate any danger at that point. If your going for the red point burn that should mean you are ready to see the chains, hopefully. If you cant even make it to the first bolt without falling reapeted times then its time for the TR setup or maybe another route.

except, as i pointed out earlier, when the rock is crappy, the holds low-probability, and the ground uncomfortable....

what if the crux is off the deck?

then you have to hike to the top, rap in and place the first draw. duh!

but most accidents occur while rapping. Look at Biggy and Tupac...

thomas ellis wrote:but most accidents occur while rapping. Look at Biggy and Tupac...

Brilliant.

thomas ellis wrote:but most accidents occur while rapping. Look at Biggy and Tupac...

i thought they occurred when you don't pull out in time? pull out of that horrible finger eating mono pocket of course. not sure what you folks were thinking of....

thomas ellis wrote:but most accidents occur while rapping. Look at Biggy and Tupac...

I laughed so hard that my coffee just came out my nose!

thomas ellis wrote:ps: who gives a shit. stick clip if you want. answer to no one but yourself.

Best line of the thread so far.