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Ice Climbing Set Up

Original Post
Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 2,176

Yo, I want to get into ice climbing. I’ve been climbing for like 3 years and I lead sport at 5.11a and trad at 5.9. I’ve done a bunch of backcountry snowboarding with snowshoes and poles up some steep stuff. I’d like to do a little mountaineering, but I really want to get into actual steep ice climbing.

I have a full trad rack, draws, slings, ect, so I’m set for that. I was thinking about grabbing like 3 ice screws (some short and long ones), a deadman and a picket. I’d like to get 1 straight shaft or slightly curved axe for normal mountaineering and then 2 semi technical ones for actual ice.

So what would you guys recommend as the best set up for me?

Boots-
Crampons-
Ice Axes-
Ice Screws-

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 2,176

And I have freedom of the hills and how to ice climb too.

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355

A few thoughts:

Boots: Priority is fit. Find a shop with a good selection and keep trying them on till you find something perfect. Be picky.

Crampons: Clip-on if you have any aspirations to climb steep ice. Horizontal vs vertical vs mono... well, you'll find partisans on all sides. I use horizontal for everything, but mostly because I don't want to buy another pair yet.

Tools: Go to an ice fest and demo as many as you can, or find someone who rents modern stuff. Trust me on this one, they DO swing differently and I wish I had done this.

Screws: Only comment is that 3 won't get you far at all. I'd be thinking more like 6 to start. As for the mix... again, everyone will have advice to give. Off the hip I'd say 3x13, 2x16, 1x22, or even just 5x13 and 1x22. If the ice is good 13cm is plenty strong, if the ice is bad you're f-cked no matter how long it is.

Mike Stearns · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 1,607
cjdrover wrote:if the ice is bad you're f-cked no matter how long it is.
+1
Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 2,176

Ok sweet thanks. Yeah I was just thinking like 3 screws for now for TR set ups and not going straight into leading, until I have some pratice placing them

cjdrover · · Watertown, MA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 355
Tristan B wrote:Ok sweet thanks. Yeah I was just thinking like 3 screws for now for TR set ups and not going straight into leading, until I have some pratice placing them
Be really careful about TR-ing on ice screws... not really recommended. After the sun hits them the threads can melt out even if it doesn't seem very warm. Better off using trees, etc.
funkyicemonkey · · Colorado · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 0

This is one of my first posts, however Ive been doing this for a while and may be able to help. To begin with focus on top roping to develop your skills on technical ice, you would be fine with three ice screws. Use the long one for V Threads/Ablocov anchors as they are very solid and dont melt out as easily. For axes look at something like tha camp/cassin x-dry as they are acceptable for mountaineering as well as hard ice and you can find some killer deals - Not as good as Nomics but more versitile (I have both, infact I have a lot of axes). A matching pair is a good way to go as a walking axe is useless on the steep stuff and two different axes with different swings will mess you up. Having said that, back in the 80s I climbed ice with curved picks, I also broke a few fingers and never progressed that much. A walking axe is cheap and even second hand will be fine. Crampons are a nightmare - to me there are not a lot of great ones out there, just go for a pair that fit your boots well. Buy quality ice screws, it makes a huge difference - Black Diamond are the benchmark, however Grivel, Petzl and Camp make really rockin' kit. Your life really depends on placing ice screws efficiently and well, so dont skimp.

If you can climb with some people with a lot of experience, Back up everything and read as much as you can. Welcome to the fold - you will find we are a fun bunch.

Bryan Vernetson · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 130

Here is my advice...

Boots- Scarpa or La Sportiva really. Fit is the most important and then ease of use/comfort are second. For me, a warm boot is important and a good lacing system, whatever it is, is important. I have Vasque M-Possibles (not made anymore) and love them. Scarpa Phantom Guides are awesome as well as the La Sportiva Batura. They are both warm, perform well on vertical and are perfect for mountaineering as well. So you can use them for a little bit of everything.

Crampons- Clip. Vertical. Cyborg. Maybe even Stinger. Mono all the way as you get just as much purchase, can rotate your feet while sticking, have extra points (for replacement) and doing any mixed terrain almost demands a mono point. I have mono Cyborgs and a pair of Stingers. Love them both.

Ice Axes- Tools are different and they all swing differently for sure. Pick angle and type is important, but if you want a do all tool the BD Viper or Petzl Quark is probably the way to go. By comparison Nomics or something else are great too, but the strike angle is way different and i believe the pick is different and doesn't work quite as well on ice unless you practice and get used to them.

Ice Screws- BD Express and i have 2 10cm, 2 13cm, 3 16cm and 1 22cm.

It is all preference, but the general setup is gonna come down to what you are comfortable with. If you have Freedom and Ice Climbing, then you probably understand the minimum of what you need. For me some of the most important stuff is clothing for ice climbing. Get a good setup for ice climbing.

And yes, TR on screws is different. I have only TR'd on screws once, actually, usually you have trees or something else to use.

Hope this helps. And again, there are a hundred answers for this topic, but it comes down to what you are going to be comfortable with. Swing stuff, try on boots and wear 10 different gloves to get a feel for what works for you. Also, climbinglife.com is a great resource for info on ice climbing. He has photos of his mixed rack and other info.

bv
www.whiteknuckled.com

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Don't bother with the deadman and the picket. For ice you are going to probably do cragging to begin with. Even on snow climbs, very rarely will you want to bother with snow anchors.

Tristan Burnham · · La Crescenta, CA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 2,176

Sweet, thanks for all the help guys.

I forgot to ask about ropes too. Double/twin or should I be fine with a dry 10 mil?

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

For top rope ice, hopefully you can find a solid tree or boulder for a top anchor. Plenty of long runners and sling to get the rope over the edge well. As for that rope, a good 10plus dry rope willl do fine. Agree that you try and find an ice clinic to attend first to test out boots and tools. Lots of quality priced intro-tools being offered up for sale here at MP if you watch the ads.

Auto-X Fil · · NEPA and Upper Jay, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 50
Tristan B wrote:Sweet, thanks for all the help guys. I forgot to ask about ropes too. Double/twin or should I be fine with a dry 10 mil?
I do almost all my ice climbing on singles, although many climbers prefer doubles or twins. Starting with TRing a single is of course preferred.

Gear recs are dead-on. Short screws are good - learn how to find good ice. It's just like climbing on chossy rock - no cam will hold if the rock is crap. In perfect granite even a tiny nut can hold a whipper. Ice is a little different because ice that's junk for pro is often the best to climb on - nice and soft and sticky.

I like G12s or similar horizontal front points. Other people love monos, and I like them for certain (very hard, cold ice) situations. Horizontal are more versatile and being in CA you're likely to find a lot of softer ice - I highly suggest G12s or Sabretooths for your first pair. Dual vertical front points are not a good compromise between horizontals and mono, skip right over them.

Please remember you are covered in pointy objects. A fall on ice can very easily mean a broken ankle or leg if your crampon catches on the way down, or an ice screw or pick stuck in your body. Will Gadd has probably climbed more ice than anyone else, ever - and he's never fallen on pure ice. It's just a very bad idea. Practice downclimbing on TR so you can get back to a screw and hang when you start leading. Ice has an element of aid to it anyway, so never gun for the top when you're fading like you might on rock.

Physically, ice climbing is easy once you get the technique down. Climbing fairly hard rock, you could easily top-rope some of the hardest ice out there (WI6) your first day out. But leading is a whole different game. Treat every little bit of ice you lead like you would a solo on rotten rock.
ormosporter · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 0

Be really careful about TR-ing on ice screws

Kai Larson · · Sandy, UT · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 436
ormosporter wrote:Be really careful about TR-ing on ice screws
I top rope on screws sometimes. I use more than one screw, and keep them far enough apart that if the ice fails, it is unlikely to take multiple screws with it.
Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78
Auto-X Fil wrote:Dual vertical front points are not a good compromise between horizontals and mono, skip right over them.
I strongly disagree with this statement. I switch constantly from mono verts to dual verts and occasionally horizontals. I find that 80% of the time I'm on pure ice, I want to be using dual verts. Your footwork is almost always more important than your 'poon style, but it does make a difference. Advantages and disadvantages of each:

Horizontals:
Ideal for less technical snow and ice, as well as vertical ice if it gets sun rotten and slushy. However, you don't quite get as much of a "stick" from kicking as vert front points. It's analogous to ice tool sticks, but not really the same thing. Hard to describe, just a general feeling. I don't really use these much, since most of the ice I do tends to be more technically oriented.

Dual verticals:
Most stable in "normal" ice. Lots of surface area under front points, solid penetration, and serrated bottoms of points means very stable feet. Vert points penetrate and stick nicely. The hoods on modern front points helps a little when things get slushy. Contrary to some people's opinions, I almost always go duals when the ice is highly featured. Reason is simple. Featured ice means shitty sticks for feet, unless you kick away the chandeliers and rot away to the good stuff. Dual points are WAY better at creating good feet. Usually just takes a good hard kick or two to get where you want.

Mono verts:
Ideal for mixed and dry tooling or for hard, brittle, and/or flatly featured ice. Monos let you take advantage of rock features WAY better than duals. If I am expecting to touch rock at all, I almost always go monos. Ice penetration is fantastic, but can shear through softer or unstable ice pretty easily. Difficult to kick through chandaliered and/or rotten ice.

Lots of great choices out there. If you are looking for technical ice, the BD Cyborgs, Grivel G14, and the new Petzl Lynx are all great choices if you are looking to be able to change from dual to mono and be able to replace the front points.
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Gave up on horizontals when I started doing REAL ice climbs. Still have my 1st. gen. Footfangs with vertical twin points and they work great for most any ice. I now have mono points which are great, except for the lousy fitting new boot they only go with.

Auto-X Fil · · NEPA and Upper Jay, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 50

Well, I prefer G12s or similar over dual verticals for WI5.

So does Will Gadd.

Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78
Auto-X Fil wrote:Well, I prefer G12s or similar over dual verticals for WI5. So does Will Gadd.
Will Gadd could probably hike WI5 in carved soap clogs dipped in astroglide. That doesn't mean I am going to.
Auto-X Fil · · NEPA and Upper Jay, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 50

He can climb in any crampon BD makes, but he chooses Sabretooths. He also suggests that others use them as well. He thinks they are the best. I've experimented and I agree.

If you are relying on the serrated picks of your crampons to help hold you in, you're doing it wrong. Get down on the secondary points. They provide way more stability, and relieve your calves. Secondary points are much more important to me than the front points when picking crampons.

I never have any crampon issues. I climb slush, sun-baked, styrofoam and bulletproof. No matter what the ice is like I just kick my g12s in, plant the secondary points, and stand up. I have never, ever had a foot blow. I see so many people blasting huge chunks of ice out planting their Cyborgs, and its really inefficient. Yeah, they are stuck good once they are in - but I've tried that method, and it's not nearly as fun and fast and efficient as low-displacement monos or horizontals with good secondary points.

I don't really care if anyone else believes me, but for the OP - at least give horizontal front points an honest try. You'll like it. Everyone else - it you're having fun on ice, that's all that matters!

Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78
Auto-X Fil wrote:If you are relying on the serrated picks of your crampons to help hold you in, you're doing it wrong. Get down on the secondary points. They provide way more stability, and relieve your calves. Secondary points are much more important to me than the front points when picking crampons.
Actually, engagement of the secondary points is EXACTLY why I prefer verts. Dropping your heel and engaging the secondary points puts torque outward on the front points. The shape of vert front points helps keep the whole front of the crampon in place when dropping your heel to make better use of the secondary points. Horizontals don't really do that as well in my opinion.

You are definitely correct in that vert points do require more of a kick. Some people overdo it and make craters. As I pointed out, technique is more important than the subtlety of your gear.

I will add that horizontals do deal with changing conditions better, since they are just fine for most technical stuff, but substantially better for slushy ice that is common at the end of the day in the sun.

Auto-X Fil wrote:At least give horizontal front points an honest try. You'll like it. Everyone else - it you're having fun on ice, that's all that matters!
I absolutely agree with the above. Give them a try, have fun!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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