Ice Climbing Set Up
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Yo, I want to get into ice climbing. Ive been climbing for like 3 years and I lead sport at 5.11a and trad at 5.9. Ive done a bunch of backcountry snowboarding with snowshoes and poles up some steep stuff. Id like to do a little mountaineering, but I really want to get into actual steep ice climbing. |
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And I have freedom of the hills and how to ice climb too. |
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A few thoughts: |
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cjdrover wrote:if the ice is bad you're f-cked no matter how long it is.+1 |
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Ok sweet thanks. Yeah I was just thinking like 3 screws for now for TR set ups and not going straight into leading, until I have some pratice placing them |
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Tristan B wrote:Ok sweet thanks. Yeah I was just thinking like 3 screws for now for TR set ups and not going straight into leading, until I have some pratice placing themBe really careful about TR-ing on ice screws... not really recommended. After the sun hits them the threads can melt out even if it doesn't seem very warm. Better off using trees, etc. |
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This is one of my first posts, however Ive been doing this for a while and may be able to help. To begin with focus on top roping to develop your skills on technical ice, you would be fine with three ice screws. Use the long one for V Threads/Ablocov anchors as they are very solid and dont melt out as easily. For axes look at something like tha camp/cassin x-dry as they are acceptable for mountaineering as well as hard ice and you can find some killer deals - Not as good as Nomics but more versitile (I have both, infact I have a lot of axes). A matching pair is a good way to go as a walking axe is useless on the steep stuff and two different axes with different swings will mess you up. Having said that, back in the 80s I climbed ice with curved picks, I also broke a few fingers and never progressed that much. A walking axe is cheap and even second hand will be fine. Crampons are a nightmare - to me there are not a lot of great ones out there, just go for a pair that fit your boots well. Buy quality ice screws, it makes a huge difference - Black Diamond are the benchmark, however Grivel, Petzl and Camp make really rockin' kit. Your life really depends on placing ice screws efficiently and well, so dont skimp. |
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Here is my advice... |
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Don't bother with the deadman and the picket. For ice you are going to probably do cragging to begin with. Even on snow climbs, very rarely will you want to bother with snow anchors. |
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Sweet, thanks for all the help guys. |
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For top rope ice, hopefully you can find a solid tree or boulder for a top anchor. Plenty of long runners and sling to get the rope over the edge well. As for that rope, a good 10plus dry rope willl do fine. Agree that you try and find an ice clinic to attend first to test out boots and tools. Lots of quality priced intro-tools being offered up for sale here at MP if you watch the ads. |
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Tristan B wrote:Sweet, thanks for all the help guys. I forgot to ask about ropes too. Double/twin or should I be fine with a dry 10 mil?I do almost all my ice climbing on singles, although many climbers prefer doubles or twins. Starting with TRing a single is of course preferred. Gear recs are dead-on. Short screws are good - learn how to find good ice. It's just like climbing on chossy rock - no cam will hold if the rock is crap. In perfect granite even a tiny nut can hold a whipper. Ice is a little different because ice that's junk for pro is often the best to climb on - nice and soft and sticky. I like G12s or similar horizontal front points. Other people love monos, and I like them for certain (very hard, cold ice) situations. Horizontal are more versatile and being in CA you're likely to find a lot of softer ice - I highly suggest G12s or Sabretooths for your first pair. Dual vertical front points are not a good compromise between horizontals and mono, skip right over them. Please remember you are covered in pointy objects. A fall on ice can very easily mean a broken ankle or leg if your crampon catches on the way down, or an ice screw or pick stuck in your body. Will Gadd has probably climbed more ice than anyone else, ever - and he's never fallen on pure ice. It's just a very bad idea. Practice downclimbing on TR so you can get back to a screw and hang when you start leading. Ice has an element of aid to it anyway, so never gun for the top when you're fading like you might on rock. Physically, ice climbing is easy once you get the technique down. Climbing fairly hard rock, you could easily top-rope some of the hardest ice out there (WI6) your first day out. But leading is a whole different game. Treat every little bit of ice you lead like you would a solo on rotten rock. |
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Be really careful about TR-ing on ice screws |
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ormosporter wrote:Be really careful about TR-ing on ice screwsI top rope on screws sometimes. I use more than one screw, and keep them far enough apart that if the ice fails, it is unlikely to take multiple screws with it. |
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Auto-X Fil wrote:Dual vertical front points are not a good compromise between horizontals and mono, skip right over them.I strongly disagree with this statement. I switch constantly from mono verts to dual verts and occasionally horizontals. I find that 80% of the time I'm on pure ice, I want to be using dual verts. Your footwork is almost always more important than your 'poon style, but it does make a difference. Advantages and disadvantages of each: Horizontals: Ideal for less technical snow and ice, as well as vertical ice if it gets sun rotten and slushy. However, you don't quite get as much of a "stick" from kicking as vert front points. It's analogous to ice tool sticks, but not really the same thing. Hard to describe, just a general feeling. I don't really use these much, since most of the ice I do tends to be more technically oriented. Dual verticals: Most stable in "normal" ice. Lots of surface area under front points, solid penetration, and serrated bottoms of points means very stable feet. Vert points penetrate and stick nicely. The hoods on modern front points helps a little when things get slushy. Contrary to some people's opinions, I almost always go duals when the ice is highly featured. Reason is simple. Featured ice means shitty sticks for feet, unless you kick away the chandeliers and rot away to the good stuff. Dual points are WAY better at creating good feet. Usually just takes a good hard kick or two to get where you want. Mono verts: Ideal for mixed and dry tooling or for hard, brittle, and/or flatly featured ice. Monos let you take advantage of rock features WAY better than duals. If I am expecting to touch rock at all, I almost always go monos. Ice penetration is fantastic, but can shear through softer or unstable ice pretty easily. Difficult to kick through chandaliered and/or rotten ice. Lots of great choices out there. If you are looking for technical ice, the BD Cyborgs, Grivel G14, and the new Petzl Lynx are all great choices if you are looking to be able to change from dual to mono and be able to replace the front points. |
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Gave up on horizontals when I started doing REAL ice climbs. Still have my 1st. gen. Footfangs with vertical twin points and they work great for most any ice. I now have mono points which are great, except for the lousy fitting new boot they only go with. |
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Well, I prefer G12s or similar over dual verticals for WI5. |
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Auto-X Fil wrote:Well, I prefer G12s or similar over dual verticals for WI5. So does Will Gadd.Will Gadd could probably hike WI5 in carved soap clogs dipped in astroglide. That doesn't mean I am going to. |
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He can climb in any crampon BD makes, but he chooses Sabretooths. He also suggests that others use them as well. He thinks they are the best. I've experimented and I agree. |
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Auto-X Fil wrote:If you are relying on the serrated picks of your crampons to help hold you in, you're doing it wrong. Get down on the secondary points. They provide way more stability, and relieve your calves. Secondary points are much more important to me than the front points when picking crampons.Actually, engagement of the secondary points is EXACTLY why I prefer verts. Dropping your heel and engaging the secondary points puts torque outward on the front points. The shape of vert front points helps keep the whole front of the crampon in place when dropping your heel to make better use of the secondary points. Horizontals don't really do that as well in my opinion. You are definitely correct in that vert points do require more of a kick. Some people overdo it and make craters. As I pointed out, technique is more important than the subtlety of your gear. I will add that horizontals do deal with changing conditions better, since they are just fine for most technical stuff, but substantially better for slushy ice that is common at the end of the day in the sun. Auto-X Fil wrote:At least give horizontal front points an honest try. You'll like it. Everyone else - it you're having fun on ice, that's all that matters!I absolutely agree with the above. Give them a try, have fun! |