Campfire under Anorexic Roof

Ah gotcha, I agree with you. It's sad the way some people treat campsites especially if you're quad camping, I was always taught to leave the smallest footprint possible and leave no trace, sadly it looks like these lessons are being lost on some on the newer generation.

Is it still chipping if it's a bullet from a gun?

shooting guns, driving off road thru the woods and burning shit has been perfectly acceptable behavior in AZ since.....well forever. those of you born and raised in the state should know that already and stop acting all surprised.

While I'm from NC originally, and not to get all hippy, but it just sucks the way things are going, I can see a definite change from the way things used to be to the way they are now.

I think we are missing the point of this post. When this event happened (fire under the roof) there was no meteorologic events happening. It has not been cold enough to warrant a fire in a cave-like dwelling. For the most we who climb on the rock do not feel as if we own it or have any rights to it. We only feel that we or someone else should be able to climb it again in pristine as conditions as possible. Surviving and just building a fire are two entirely different things.

Eric Hamer wrote:We only feel that we or someone else should be able to climb it again in pristine as conditions as possible.

Pristine is a strong term.

There is a current fight in NorAZ and Kentucky about this right now.

Black Canyon of the Gunnison is taking comments as well. End 10/27. Black Canyon could get some severe restrictions.

Mark S wrote: Pristine is a strong term. There is a current fight in NorAZ and Kentucky about this right now. Black Canyon of the Gunnison is taking comments as well. End 10/27. Black Canyon could get some severe restrictions.

Really? Pristine a "strong term"

You obviously don't even live in the area or understand the dynamics to the issues at hand. The BCG has nothing to do with the above.

Restrictions on climbing already exist dumbass. You think because a guide book goes OOP that it's no longer a climbing area? Are you for real? Obviously you're an Idiot based on your comment and knowledge of the area.

Hmmmmm......

Needles guide book has been OOP for quite some time, but strangely climbers go there EVERY year!!!!

Maybe if you did your homework you would have gotten something more then an 8th grade education.

Eric H, so every time you do one of the problems at Priest Draw you brush off all your chalk and replant the vegetation under the boulder right? That way the next guy can have a pristine boulder also.

Can we say again, egocentric.

I would have to agree with Jimbo on this. Its not a bouldering area its a natural area for all to enjoy. Its not the climbing community that governs this area. Ill go start a fire under that roof any time I feel fit. I probably wont do it, but I would not be detoured from it just because some guy climbs it. Its the community's area and others have the right to use it in any way that is legal. Get off you high horses and just accept that climbers are not the law of the rocks and natural areas, like they seem to think they are. Have fun, climb trad and get over it. Gosh I know so many areas where folks put bolts and it pisses me off, but hey what you gonna do. I would to love to chop quite a few bolts off the peaks but im not gonna. So what is right and wrong here. I guess there isnt a right or wrong just tolerance.

Since when were Farmers stewards of the land? I grew up in the midwest and been everywhere since and havent met any farmers that actually respect the land or its dwellers. Otherwise they would be doing perm a-culture. And Im pretty sure that most climbers have little respect for it as well. "Sport climbing is a yuppy exercise craze." I heard that on a film the other day and almost died laughing.

I think the Christian right is trashing Az a lot more then any native group.

The Christian Right? Seriously?

hahaha...that....is the shit

It's true, anyone can light a fire under any of the problems in the Draw, but there's a campsite nearby and plenty of open space near every problem so why not go to a spot where a fire won't effect anyone, and everyone can be happy?

If you have to take a shit, you're probably not going pull your pants down and unload in the middle of your living room (even though you paid for the house, and you can do whatever you want) because other people (i.e. your now angry wife/girlfriend/children/friends) might wanna hang out in there and watch TV, or bash sport climbers. So, you'll probably make the short walk to the bathroom and take a shit in the toilet because...that's where everyone shits.

So, on behalf of climbers from Flagstaff, or just anyone who climbs at any of the local crags on a regular basis: don't shit in our living room. It's just not cool.

p.s. I know the analogy indicates that Flagstaff climbers own the local crags, and we don't. I get it. It's just meant to be a funny way of making an argument. So, what we need now is someone to write a response using the terms "egocentric" or "high horse", which they then follow by raining down judgment and criticism on everyone else.

How's this one: I think it's egocentric, or maybe ethnocentric, to think that the person or persons responsible for this are reading this forum.

In fact, I propose this: Anyone reading this forum (like myself) and is visiting this area has come there specifically to climb, and is therefor, probably not going to abuse (as you imply) the rock.

People that go there to camp, whether messy (Rednecks, as David Sahalie first said) or Leave-No-Trace campers might not even be aware if there's a climbing spot there. They probably think "This is a cool place to camp." And that's the end of their thought process.

So just out of curiosity, why preach to the choir?

Charles, really more a section 2 story not front page.

Dale and I met up at Sunspots last spring. We kissed and made up and agreed to disagree.

Fire, fire, fire....
Climbers shit all over the climbing areas ive been too. Maybe they like to shit in their own living rooms. I think thats what climbing is all about now.shitting in living rooms, hell youll go out and retrobolt trad climbs. if thats not shittin I dont know what to call it. Anyway, this was fun. Peace. Oh yeah, Jim and I are kool. I admire his contributions and ethics. Im just a bit grumpy at times. especially when it comes to bad bolts. Hell I climb like shit now anyway. Actually im gettin better hangin up here with Chris. I just dont have the same desire as I use too. I think the climbing community ruined it for me. Just the climbing world. What a bunch of addicts.

Good to hear that you guys have made up, although it means less entertainment for the rest of us.

It was (breaking) news to me, but I tend to be out of the loop :)

Hahaha. Dale, excellent post! I totally agree.