Irregular cam sizes

I have noticed that the recent guidebook that I bought as well as routes that are posted on here make references to cam sizes that do not seem to exist on the manufacturer's web sites. Specifically #3.5,#4.5 Camalots, 1.5 Tech Friends (there are 1.5 Helium Friends), and #9 Metolius.

Are these references to sizes that are no longer manufactured, or are they saying that I will need a cam that's somewhere between a 3 and 4 Camalot? The guidebook is the second edition to Indian Creek by David Bloom.

A #9 metolius is between a #3 and #4 BD C4 (or just a little smaller than a #4 friend)

A #1.5 tech friend is basically the same size as a #1.5 helium friend.

A #3.5 BD is just a little smaller than a #4 BD C4 (about the same size with a little more range than a #4 friend)

A #4.5 BD is about the same as a #5 BD C4.

Yes, none of the pieces you've mentioned are being made anymore.
Metolius sells their supercams in place of the #9.
Friends have recently changed very subtly in design recently. The sizes are slightly changed now.
Black Diamond changed their cams some years ago to the "C4" version. The sizes are the same up to a #3.

andrewc wrote:A #9 metolius is between a #3 and #4 BD C4 (or just a little smaller than a #4 friend) A #1.5 tech friend is basically the same size as a #1.5 helium friend. A #3.5 BD is just a little smaller than a #4 BD C4 (about the same size with a little more range than a #4 friend) A #4.5 BD is about the same as a #5 BD C4. Yes, none of the pieces you've mentioned are being made anymore. Metolius sells their supercams in place of the #9. Friends have recently changed very subtly in design recently. The sizes are slightly changed now. Black Diamond changed their cams some years ago to the "C4" version. The sizes are the same up to a #3.

This is especially problematic in the desert, where a #4 C4 and an old style #4 camalot are very different in size, to the point that you can't really trust your gear in a #4 camalot crack unless you actually have old style #4 camalots.

Also, they changed the sizing of the .3 camalot at some point, but I don't think it coincided with the C4 change.

Doesn't it just ruin your whole day when you realize that folks have been climbing - and writing guidebooks - much longer than you have?

WildernessRespect wrote:Yep, all these super guide books need to be re-written. Black Diamond re-did their cam line a few years ago. Wild Country just revamped their line. New aliens. Totem cams. Wired Bliss cams. Blah Blah Blah

fully agree!

Murphski wrote:I have noticed that the recent guidebook that I bought as well as routes that are posted on here make references to cam sizes that do not seem to exist on the manufacturer's web sites. Specifically #3.5,#4.5 Camalots, 1.5 Tech Friends (there are 1.5 Helium Friends), and #9 Metolius. Are these references to sizes that are no longer manufactured, or are they saying that I will need a cam that's somewhere between a 3 and 4 Camalot? The guidebook is the second edition to Indian Creek by David Bloom.

Here is a good conversion from Black Diamond:
blackdiamondequipment.com/u…

It is unfortunate that they changed they sizing... often times I read route descriptions that say bring a #5 camalot, and based on the date I am unsure if I should be bringing a C4 5 or 6... hauling one up only to find out it is the wrong size sucks... usually only an issue with offwidths since everything from the 3 down is about the same size.

Indian Creek sizes are usually given in historic friends sizes, which eventually you get used to converting to BD sizes.

Gunkiemike wrote:Doesn't it just ruin your whole day when you realize that folks have been climbing - and writing guidebooks - much longer than you have?

That rarely bothers me, the real pisser is when they say number 4 nut and no matter how hard I try my No 4 MOAC doesn´t go in.

I think all guidebooks should reference the actual size of the cams needed. Supertopo bigwalls book does a good job at this and has a chart in the beginning that shows the different brands of cams and what size range they actually cover. This way you just need to know the sizes on your rack and not memorize the sizes of varying brands that are referenced in the books. Knowing that I need 1 inch gear is much more helpful to me than saying the model of cam neded (ie .5 camalot)