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BD Camalots vs WC Heliums

Original Post
Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

Looking into buying cams. Im leaning towards the camalots but I am trying to understand why someone would buy the Heliums. Thanks!

Guy H. · · Fort Collins CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 8,318

Heliums are lighter and will fill in the gaps between the C4 sizes. I think the Heliums (like the older friends) are less stable than the C4s, especially in the larger sizes.

Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0
wildcountry.co.uk/download/…

Google's a wonderful thing
Robert Buswold · · Northglenn, CO · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 80

Hmm, a review on the Wild Country website for a Wild Country product. I can't see how that would be biased in any way.

I think the reason (a very good reason at that) Josh Allred would prefer to ask in a forum dedicated to discussion of climbing and it's related equipment, is that he is much more likely to get unbiased input from people that have had experience with whatever topic he would like to know about.

So Yarp, thanks for alluding to the fact that we can use Google to do everything, but if we do that, what use is a discussion forum like Mountain Project?

Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140

I've never climbed on Heliums. But my opinion would be, C4s are a tried and true cam. Heliums may be amazing too, but does that justify the cost? It's up for you to decide. Personally I would say just buy C4s, they're the "gold standard" cam. It's not like you're trying to decide whether to buy a Gear4Rocks cam or spend more money on a good cam. They're both reliable and work well (i'm assuming heliums work well) so just get the cheapest.

Dominion Rognstad · · Houston. From Boone, NC · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 385
Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

I say both - BD and WC compliment each quite well for a set of doubles. Always buy on sale, though, no matter the brand. Unless you're a climber with extra $$ !?!

Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110
Josh Allred wrote:Looking into buying cams. Im leaning towards the camalots but I am trying to understand why someone would buy the Heliums. Thanks!
WC and BD both make wonderful cams. It really comes down to preference. Asking what cam is better on a climbing site is like going in to a redneck bar and asking what is better ford, dodge, or chevy? You will get 100 different awnsers and fierce competition as to why each is better and the other sucks.

IMHO waite until the cams you are looking at are on sale and then buy them when they are cheap.
Frank K · · Bishop, CA · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 30

camalots are cheaper, it's a no brainer. I have never seen a crack from 0.75 camalot to #4 camalot that you can't get a bomber placement in with C4s. (they have enough overlap to not need anything between sizes)

Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140
Frank K wrote:(they have enough overlap to not need anything between sizes)
I respectfully call BS. There will be a few placements where a camalot is in the tipped out range with a smaller cam but really overcammed with the next bigger size. The usable range of c4s are way under what is advertised. At the same time though, you'll get that with any cam. Just wanted to make that point though.
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
Evan Sanders wrote: I respectfully call BS. There will be a few placements where a camalot is in the tipped out range with a smaller cam but really overcammed with the next bigger size. The usable range of c4s are way under what is advertised. At the same time though, you'll get that with any cam. Just wanted to make that point though.
This is especially true at Indian Creek. Everyone who has climbed there should be familiar with that size where green C4s are baggy and reds won't quite fit (or are ridiculously overcammed). It seems like this size is really common. As such, it is nice to have a couple different brands of cams, so as to be able to get the right fit. I had a red link cam while I was there, which was really nice to bridge that gap. On a gradually widening crack like Battle of the Bulge (the route, not the wall), you could place greens until they got too baggy, then place a few red link cams or #2 friends in the in-between size, and then place red C4s once it widened up enough.

On granite, you can get away with having just one brand of cams because there is usually enough subtle variations in crack size that if there is one spot that is too wide for a good green and too narrow for a good red, you can just place a good piece a foot higher or lower, where the crack width is slightly different.

So anyway, in some places having just BDs is fine, but in other places a mix of brands is the way to go.
JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115

That said, if you are getting your first set of cams, I would recommend going with BD. One big advantage is-as silly as this sounds-because that's what most everyone else uses. Being familiar with the sizing of a brand of cams is really important for making quick placements. BD is the standard in the US (I imagine WC is more popular in Britain), so if you are climbing in the US, then you partners will probably want to use BD cams since that is what they are familiar with. As such, you best be familiar with BD too. Plus, BD cams are just really good; they are the standard for a good reason.

So, you should get BD now, then later once you double up on cams you'll be more informed about what you want/need for the areas you tend to climb in, and can decide then whether to get more BDs or to diversify.

Josh Olson · · Durango, CO · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 255
Jon Moen wrote:That said, if you are getting your first set of cams, I would recommend going with BD. One big advantage is-as silly as this sounds-because that's what most everyone else uses. Being familiar with the sizing of a brand of cams is really important for making quick placements. BD is the standard in the US (I imagine WC is more popular in Britain), so if you are climbing in the US, then you partners will probably want to use BD cams since that is what they are familiar with. As such, you best be familiar with BD too. Plus, BD cams are just really good; they are the standard for a good reason. So, you should get BD now, then later once you double up on cams you'll be more informed about what you want/need for the areas you tend to climb in, and can decide then whether to get more BDs or to diversify.
That is one reason that I would suggest NOT getting bd. If you have metolius, wc, etc., you and most people together have doubles of different brands. More options is good.
Canon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 0

I have Friends (not the Heliums - the last version before the switch) from 0 to 4 (including half-sizes) and Black Diamond C4s from .3 to 3. I place the BD's FAR more often. They are more versatile, and just plain feel better. I started leading on the Friends, and now if I can lighten my rack, they are the first ones to go. I have used the Helium Friends once - they do about the same thing as the C4s but they dont feel as good doing it, while costing the same amount of money. BD wins. YMMV.

Mia KCarver · · Butte, MT · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 0

both expensive. have some patience and buy them used, then their heavy price tags are a non-issue. If you're climbing in Indian Creek or any route where you guys need to start racking triples and up, I would try my best to climb with nothing but the old style WC friends.

You can shave, quite literally, pounds off your sling. plus, they're frequently sold dirt cheap. Especially in the canyonlands, the weight of cams can make or break an onsight. But yup, if you're looking for advice on your own personal doubled up standard rack, everyone has BD for a reason. You're not going to find used Heliums anytime soon o rnew ones going discounted 30% on retail.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

There is already a link to my review above, but my short answer is that you can't go wrong with either. If you are on a tight budget then neither cam is the way to go, as there are cheaper cams out there.

I have Camalots and I use them as my second set of cams. If I have a single rack, it usually consists of either Metolius TCUs or Aliens for small stuff and Heliums for hand sizes. BDs are great in finger sizes and larger sizes... I really only like the Heliums in hands.

You won't be sorry ethier way, but the Helims do have advantages over Camalots. It's up to you to decide if those advantages are worth the extra dough.

Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140
John Wilder wrote: you do realize the Friend is the original cam, right? The Helium is the latest generation, but its basic design is more tried and true than Black Diamonds.
What part of what i said made you think i didn't realize that? BD is a tried a true cam, and he wasn't asking about the original friend he was asking about heliums. And even if we were comparing the originals, I'd still say BD. Not much of a WC guy, but I'm also not one of those guys who worships BD cams. I've actually only got 3 on my rack right now. But given the options...I'd choose BD.
Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140

Didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78
John Wilder wrote:The part where you implied that the Wild Country cam is not a tried and true design by saying the C4 was.
Let's be fair here. The construction of the heliums has substantial differences from all previous generations of WC cams. The things that have remained the same are mostly related to design (cam angle in particular), but the list of changes is far more massive and more directly related to durability (lobe construction and design, stem termination, trigger, etc). I personally consider them a new cam altogether, albeit one being designed and manufactured by a company who knows cams better than perhaps anyone. They're like a sexy new sports car. They feel fantastic out of the box, but you just don't know what might go wrong until they have some miles on them.

BD's latest generation of camalots have been on the market virtually unchanged* for years. They have been BY FAR the most common cams purchased and used over this period of time, at least in the US. Their record has proven beyond all reasonable doubt that they are durable, well constructed, and perform as expected. Their negatives are well known and well documented.

I have absolutely no doubt hat WC's absolutely stellar track record applies here with the heliums, but it isn't accurate to say that the current generation of heliums are as "tried and true" as current generation camalots. Only time and use will tell that for sure.

I will also note that I got to try them out this past weekend on their native rock, gritstone. They felt VERY nice, well constructed, easy to use, placed beautifully. If I had a need to fill out some of my BD rack right now in the big fingers-to-hands range, they'd be on top of my list. If I were making a new rack from scratch, I'd still probably stick with mostly BD, but throw these in for doubles in the above range. I might be convinced to go the other way around if I had more miles with them. Who knows.

  • Worth noting that manufacturing changed to China in this time period, with no apparent effect on quality so far. I would be shocked if there were any actual changes to quality because of the change in manufacturing.
Chris Owen · · Big Bear Lake · Joined Jan 2002 · Points: 11,617

I agree that the current revision of the Camalot has remained unchanged for years BUT it took several major revisions of the design to get to this point, and the product now seems to be mature. However I do take issue with this product being manufactured in the Republic of China.

I may be a hopeless romantic but there's something comforting to me about purchasing and using a product that is manufactured by people who, when they look up from their work, can see the crags that were explored by the likes of Mallory, Kirkus, Edwards, Brown, Whillans et al. The words authenticity and integrity come to mind.

On top of that I'm British by birth and more than likely extremely biased - so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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