Here's a little humdinger

I'll say now that this is one of those 'is it ethical' threads so I'm ready with the can opener. But this weekend talking to some folks down in the creek that have watched it change over the last 30 years we got to discussing the wear and tear on some routes ie IHC, Way Rambo etc. and got to discussing one specific climb that was sandy 30 years ago and has since been subject to so many years of erosion but has original star drives on it but is fairly unclimbable due to its condition.

So the question is should we:
a) leave it as is with star drives that could be pulled by hand?
b) replace said *drives with beefy 1/2" bolts so that others can enjoy this 1 star chosspile?
c) chop the bolts and wish it well on the farm with the cats and dogs of our child hood?

or is there an option d I have not considered?

i don't see a problem with replacing the stardrives with 1/2". star drives were the cutting edge of technology at the time, and like anything else, won't last forever. probably better to update the fixed gear than potentially have an "incident" where an old fixed piece is involved in somebody getting injured or killed.

but for a 1 star route at best is it worth it or do you let it die?

Remember...starring a climb is subject to opinion.
Your 1 star is someone elses 5.

Either replace the bolts or leave them as is.

Completely chopping a route is not the answer.

If you want my vote I say replace them.

josh

I say, let who ever thinks it's a 5 star route replace the old bolts.

a 1 star desert route would be at least a 4 star eldo route.... it's totally up to you, but i don't see anything wrong with updating the fixed hardware.

slim wrote:a 1 star desert route would be at least a 4 star eldo route.....

I heard in Eldo all routes start at four stars and the rating system adds stars to the base. So if I am not mistaken a 1 star route in Eldo actually means 4+1 so is a five star route everywhere else.

Oh, and Jimbo I think you have hit the nail on the head with this one. Problem solved. Let the thread drift begin...

Monomaniac wrote: AHHHH!!! He's a witch! BURN HIM!

The route in mind is Orion's Bow at the Creek, its a 3 pitch sport climb. I suppose if you guys find yourself out there you could check it out, there should be a bail biner on the second bolt assuming no one has done it since me haha. It's got like a 3 minute approach if that's any motivation.

Update the bolts for sure.

Killis I'd happily show you the line if rebolting is requested my point is that in the last 30 years about 1/2" of the climb has eroded, thus it's not the climb it was, although talking to some of the early ascentionists they said it was sandy and of poor quality then too...but I digress. I'd be happy to meet up share a barley soda and go on a bolting quest with ya although I can think of better anchors/bolts to replace at the creek than a climb that is rarely/if ever climbed.

Sam Feuerborn wrote:The route in mind is Orion's Bow at the Creek, its a 3 pitch sport climb. I suppose if you guys find yourself out there you could check it out, there should be a bail biner on the second bolt assuming no one has done it since me haha. It's got like a 3 minute approach if that's any motivation.

Sam Feuerborn wrote:Killis I'd happily show you the line if rebolting is requested my point is that in the last 30 years about 1/2" of the climb has eroded, thus it's not the climb it was, although talking to some of the early ascentionists they said it was sandy and of poor quality then too...but I digress. I'd be happy to meet up share a barley soda and go on a bolting quest with ya although I can think of better anchors/bolts to replace at the creek than a climb that is rarely/if ever climbed.

Orion's Bow is hardly a sport route. The second pitch down right dangerous. Then again we did it in 86 on acid on a rest day.

Allen that's a pretty apt description of the route.

It's a cool route and ought to be upgraded.

We ran into a couple who had climbed it on an off day, and said they had a good time with the exception of the outdated hardware. If it were my route, and it was in the guidebook I would feel some sort of responsibility for the gear on that route. Assuming simply because the route is in the guide that individuals would then seek it out.

The route is well over 25 years old and I really don't think you'll be seeing Ed Webster replacing his bolts. But he'd most likely be happy if someone did. He was proud of the route as I recall. We did it on his recommendation in fact. Maybe the third ascent I'd guess.