Trango Cinch Slipping?

Yesterday while my partner was TRing a climb I noticed that when she fell the cinch would stop the fall but then if you watched the rope you could see that 1 to 2 inches of rope would slowly move through the cinch and then eventually come to a complete stop.

I hadn't seen this before and it seemed a bit unsettling. This happen to anyone else?

Full Specs:
Cinch -> About a year old (I believe it's the 2nd generation, it's red). We use it in the gym and most weekends outside so it gets fairly heavy use.
Rope -> New Mammut Infinity 9.5 70m (only has 5 or 6 days on it outside so far)

Theory 1:
Over time the clamping metal in the cinch has been warn down just enough so that it is not biting as hard as it use to on thinner diameter ropes (9.5mm is on edge of the recommended diameter for the cinch, the specs say 9.4 to 11mm)

>I would find this hard to believe even with uber heavy use of the cinch but just tossing it out there.

Theory 2:
Since the rope is new it's sheath is slicker than a used rope since it doesn't have much dirt/particles in it yet. This results in less friction and thus a bit of slippage that was just not noticed with previous new ropes.

>This seems more realistic but not sure if it's a real concern or not.

Its the slick skinny rope. It will be fine after awhile.

the metal dowel in the cinch that is the primary pinch point can become worn by heavy use, especially if ropes are dirty or sandy. Easy to check if this is the case, just flip it open and look at the dowel. If there is a groove, that might be your culprit. I've heard you can replace it fairly easily by yourself with a punch and a standard sized stainless dowel from the hardware store. I think the newest cinches use stainless, but the older ones use aluminum, so it would wear quicker, but I could be making that up.

There was a thread on this a while back too, I think more specifics were in there.

The Cinch does have a slightly dynamic belay, which I interpret as some slippage. My Cinch has always, very slowly and I mean very slowly, let out rope if I was holding someone on toprope without a hand on the rope. It's better or worse depending on the size of the rope and the different coatings. If you use the device as intended it works very well. I wouldn't worry about it but that's just me.

My Cinch was slipping in a similar fashion. I talked to Trango and they said the Cinches would wear out and start to slip after 3 to 4 years of use or with heavy use as quickly as a year. I used my very heavily, about 150 days in a year.

So, you might give Trango a call.

both of my grigris slip slowly also. i just keep my hand on the brake side and that keeps it from slipping. in particular, my wife is pretty light, and if she is on a route with some drag and takes or falls, the rope will want to slip a considerable amount.

Mine slips too. I have the first generation cinch and the dowel on mine is worn like Phill mentioned.
If your hand never leaves the break strand you have nothing to worry about.

Thanks for all the info, sounds pretty normal.

Simple solution: DON'T TAKE YOUR BRAKE HAND OFF THE ROPE and keep tension on the brake strand when holding someone. It's a lock-assist device (read: NOT auto-locking) and not intended to positively lock on its own without intervention. It just happens that it often does, but that does _not_ mean it should be expected to do it in all circumstances.

Here's a link on how to replace the dowel pin.

cascadeclimbers.com/forum/u…

All the above info seems to be pretty good. But something else to consider.

A friend of mine has used his lots, on thicker ropes. His was slipping as well. He found the reasoning to be that it had just gotten a small amount of dirt in the movement pieces. After a good cleaning no more slippage.

Throw it away. Yer gunna Die.

I do not like the cinch because of reasons like this. I had a friend who was belaying and the cinch had already locked off. He was leaning backwards near the edge of a 15 ft. drop-off and all of the sudden the cinch came unlocked and started sizzling through the device. I have seen another guy dropped 30 feet before the cinch decided to lock off. Possibly user error, but this wouldn't happen to a Gri-Gri unless you were squeezing the device. Gri-Gri's take years to wear down to the slippage point.

One thing that I do not like about the cinch is that pulling the break strand down doesn't engage the break like an ATC. Even the Gri-Gri acts like an ATC if the break doesn't work. The device has to swivel or there is no break at all. So most people's reaction to a fall is break down, this does nothing mechanically to the Cinch. If the rope is flying through the Cinch, you can only stop the person by grip strength.

Go get a Gri-Gri.

muttonface wrote:I've heard of this before also. In Trango's defense, it says it works on ropes from 9.4mm to 11mm. A brand new slickery 9.5 is on the lower end of the scale. Now, I agree that if it is an auto-LOCKER, which it is, then it should LOCK on a rope that is within the prescribed size range. I've never had a problem with mine, and it is pretty worn, but at the same time, I climb on 10mm to 10.3mm rope. Kinda makes me second guess that good deal I got on mine for sixty bucks.

It's not a *&%$@!^% auto locker and the constant use of that term in our climbing vernacular only makes everyone more complacent about the use of these types of devices.

Get it out of your vocabulary, anyone that says auto locker is dead wrong in reference to these devices. They have their place and that's to make life easier in some instances but not to allow you to have a beer and text while you belay. They do not take the belayer out of the equation.

But I bought the cinch specifically so I could eat a BBQ chicken and belay at the same time...

I agree that it is a combination of both factors as well. I have seen this with my Cinch and with Grigris as well. My 9.4 Bluewater slips a little as well. My Cinch is about 7 years old. You could contact Trango for replacement or just to clarify. They are always helpful.

bv
www.whiteknuckled.com

muttonface wrote: Ok Sam. Sorry. I didn't mean to imply that it in any way should substitute attentive belaying in which the belayer never takes his/her eye off the climber, anticipates falls, and never takes their hand off the brake strand. I won't refer to auto-assist devices as auto-lockers. It is now removed from my vocabulary. Hope your blood pressure is ok.

Sorry, that wasn't directed directly at you, that term just drives me nuts having taught lots of new climbers and seen way too many "experienced" climbers use horrendous belay technique.

i had a 2nd gen. cinch that had little wear and tear on it fail on a well loved 10.2 mammut rope. I stepped out of my porta-ledge with the cinch as my safety (there were backup knots too) and instead of it locking off i dropped at about an elevator speed....grabbed my haulbags to stop myself, backed it up with an ascender and drop tested a few more times and it continued slipping, thus i went back to soloing on clove hitches to finish the route...

thats why i use my mammut smart despite the flaws ... it aint autolocking, but locking assisted ... but it is mechanically simple and you can easily see everything .. plus its lighter and half the price ... also on a fall the belay method with the smart is more natural to grab the rope with the brake hand, like an atc

with the alpine smart i try to wear out the two groves evenly, left side for TR and right side for lead