Arc'Teryx Harnesses

divnamite wrote:Why don't they do the same thing like the belay loop? Will it reduce comfort? Less packable, more costly?

I really don't know what you mean here. Again, the tech behind the arc'teryx harnesses prevents this from being practical.

Harnesses achieve comfort by spreading the load across a wider area. More traditional harnesses use a strip of webbing as the structural component, and spread the load via padding.

The arc'teryx harnesses work very differently. They essentially take a strip of webbing, remove the vertical fibers in parts of it, and then spread the horizontal fibers out forming a waist belt shape. This is then laminated to hold its shape. The entire waist band is structural webbing. There is no padding because the load is already spread pretty well across the harness.

The only way to make a belay loop-like attachment would be to spread out the webbing twice, with a second point of convergence dead center in the back. This would be horribly uncomfortable, expensive, and virtually impossible to size correctly.

In my opinion, full strength haul loops aren't all that useful anyway. It mostly just ends up holding my chalk bag.

Also, to chime in regarding the durability of these harnesses, I have owned my r-320 for 3 years. Absolutely love the thing, except for a couple issues regarding durability. This is my third harness.

Two things have worn out for me. 1) All the elastic stuff everywhere wore out waaaay too fast. Minor issue. Hopefully they'll be using a more robust elastic in the new generation. 2) Unfortunately, I have seriously troubling wear through the reinforcement of the rope attachment points on the leg loops and waist belt. 3 years of hard use, but still surprised to see something like that. I'm sending it in to arc'teryx. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll replace it.

has anyone checked out the new big-wall harness, or the new versions of the gear harness. Wondering how the wider hip belt sits, and if they have beefed up the tie in points.

T

I had to tape all my gear loops to prevent the molding from coming off.

The haul triangle is a joke

Very glad to be on the ground one day and a little on the 'out of it side', I was able to completely undo my harness on the 'never needs double back buckle' ( I now tie my ($150) tail with an overhand for fear of it failing.

Very comfortable though.

If I could go back I would buy another brand.

Simply the most comfortable and light harness. I absolutely love mine, more than any other harness I've had.

I have both the X350a and the new B360 big wall harness .

Let me start w/ the 350a I love this harness it's everything I want in a ice climbing/ trad rig I found them on sale last year @ bentgate n bought two , I don't give a rats ass about the haul loop so for me it's no issue if I need to tag a line I just clip one to a
Carabiner on one of the gear loops n go . The only minor bitch I have is the ice clipper slot on the left side is almost too far back for me but other than that it's been a great rig .

The B360 is a nice rig but after using it for trad the past week n checking out it's hang ability I have come to pretty much the same conclusions I had when I first tried one on in the store

First I guess it could be a bigwall harness for a speed climber but I myself wouldn't hang in it for very long w/o a butt bag this for me anyway pretty much rules it out as anything
But a nice comfy trad rig Yea it's alot more comfortable than most ESP w/ the wider waist belt but for ME there are way more comfy harness for bigwall hanging.

Second the ice clipper slots are right under the gear loops ,this is my biggest pet peeve as you can ether rack gear or use the clipper slots but if you try n use both
Than shit gets tangled together and it makes it too much hastle IMOH . Also the clipper slots are made out of some elastic that looks like a cheesy after thought IMOH

I bought this harness in a large to try out next ice climbing season as well as it looked
Like one clipper loop on each side might set just enough between the gear loops to be
Usefull but that theory remains to be tested.

To it's credit the gear loops are fantastic I like the extra ones on each side for racking
Mucho gear n the wide waistbelt makes doing so easy n comfy ,like I said before this is a way comfy trad harness and I'm pretty sure this is what mine will end up being.
If you find it works for you as a bigwall harness than right on ! I'm stoked for you!

I'm not trying to bash Arcteryx I love there overpriced gear but I think they could have done a much better job on the B360

I started off with a 2010 R320 and loved it for sport climbing and gym climbing. I climb 5-7 days per week and through either my falling for fun or outdoor climbing, blew out the belay ring. So I went and tried out Petzel and BD harnesses in the same quality and price, didn't really like the comfort of these. So I ended up with a R275 and this has become my sport climbing harness. I have no issues with it. Gear loops are excellent.

Arcteryx sent me a new R320 to replace the old one. The new no longer has elastic and now has buckles. So we'll see how it works as a harness when I get the chance to use it. I do not see myself switching harnesses any time soon.

As an update, I sent in my old R-320 a month ago, as the tie in points wore out (see previous post).

They just sent me back a full replacement for the original, as in I receive a brand new original r-320, not the R-320a. Unfortunately, I got impatient and bought a new harness to use in the meantime, so I'm gonna have to sell the one they sent me.

Good on arc'tertyx for the no-questions replacement.

iceman777 wrote: Second the ice clipper slots are right under the gear loops ,this is my biggest pet peeve as you can ether rack gear or use the clipper slots but if you try n use both Than shit gets tangled together and it makes it too much hastle IMOH . Also the clipper slots are made out of some elastic that looks like a cheesy after thought IMOH

Probably the thinking on the clipper slot placement is that you can clip the clipper through both the slot AND the gear loop so if the slot material fails, you don't lose up to 1/2 your screws. I've used other harnesses like this and it's not been a big problem. The screws mostly hang back out of the way and I don't put all that much on my front gear loops anyway (especially if I a have 3 on a side like the B360 does. However, this is admittedly all theory at this point; I bought one to try next ice season too and haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

update, similar to others here, i just returned my dead bird 350a for the 3rd time at MEC ... MEC was kind enough to give me a store credit

i debated spending the money on another harness, but i just pulled my spare BD momentum out of retirement ...

i have to say i have not seen the tie in points wear out as fast as a dead bird ... im not the only one i know with this problem

the harness feels great, but i dont want to keep on taking them back ... and it doesnt make me climb any better than a $50 harness ...

bearbreeder wrote:update, similar to others here, i just returned my dead bird 350a for the 3rd time at MEC ... MEC was kind enough to give me a store credit i debated spending the money on another harness, but i just pulled my spare BD momentum out of retirement ... i have to say i have not seen the tie in points wear out as fast as a dead bird ... im not the only one i know with this problem the harness feels great, but i dont want to keep on taking them back ... and it doesnt make me climb any better than a $50 harness ...

For what it's worth, dead bird knows the issue and has massively beefed up the tie-in points for all harnesses this generation. The only one not to be updated was the 350-a (wa waaaaa).

Had the same experience as mcarizona. On the ground the "never needs double back" came undone with light tug. Also started putting in safety knot. Last trip to COR the plastic haul loops kept popping out and quick draws became stuck on webbing gear loops. Now it is my gym harness and went back to good ole, double back, beefy, Misty Mountain Sonic (sorry I left Misty...it was just a summer fling).

shoo wrote:In my opinion, full strength haul loops aren't all that useful anyway.

Shoo is right. Full-strength haul loops sound like a good idea, but aren't, really. I know, I know, why have a weak loop there when for not much more cost, you can have a super-strong one? Strong is good, right? This is the thinking that drives marketing. :-)

If you need rated strength off your harness, you should be connecting to your belay loop, for the simple fact that if you take simultaneous opposing loads with both of your rated loops, your body will be caught in the middle.

Try this with any harness that's got a rated haul loop: hang at belay, then hang something really heavy (like a buddy) off your haul loop. Or anchor yourself via your rated haul loop, then catch a heavy climber who lifts you off the deck. Result? The bruises will be spectacular.

The upside of a rated haul loop is that you'll be confident in its strength. The downside this confidence is that it may make it tempting to use it in ways that can hurt you, when you never needed a rated haul loop- you've already got a perfectly good rated loop on the front of your harness.

Personally i haven't liked the Arc' Teryx harnesses that much. For me I like a little more beef and support. That's not to say their harnesses aren't good, they definitely are, i just prefer my rigs from BD. I use the Chaos and the Xenos. They both have a little extra in the back support, better ice clipper slots on the Xenos, and the haul loop is full value. I also like the gear loops more. More substantial and burly.

Hope this helps.

bv
www.whiteknuckled.com

Can anyone explain to me why full strength haul loops exists? I added one to my harness with an old spectra dogbone, but never used it and still can figure out why I would ever need it. Enlighten me puleeze.

Peter Pitocchi wrote:Can anyone explain to me why full strength haul loops exists? I added one to my harness with an old spectra dogbone, but never used it and still can figure out why I would ever need it. Enlighten me puleeze.

Because people will pay more for them, regardless of their actual utility (or lack thereof). They are occasionally useful for trailing a line, but I find that trailing a line is rarely the optimal solution anyway.

I don't really use my haul loop except for trailing a second line, but don't aid climbers use it pretty regularly? And should you use it for an anchor point attachment instead of using the belay loop while belaying? I have and it works ok, that's why i ask.

I do agree though. Not much going on for a full strength haul loop. At least for the masses.

BryanV wrote:[...]should you use it for an anchor point attachment instead of using the belay loop while belaying?

Should you? No. You can, and if it works, it works.
That said, you've got perfectly good power points to use to connect yourself to the anchor, and not much in the way of good reasons not to use them preferentially.

When belaying off your harness at anchor, you face the risk that you might become caught in the system if it comes under load. If you're connected to the anchor via your power points and via your belay loop to the load, this isn't a big deal- the two are both in front of you, they're the strongest parts of your harness, they're connected to each other, and your body isn't caught in the middle of the load. If you know how to escape a belay, you'll be able to get yourself out of the system. I have doubts that you'd be able to escape if one of your connecting points was behind you, and you were being squeezed by your belt.

Peter Pitocchi wrote:Can anyone explain to me why full strength haul loops exists? I added one to my harness with an old spectra dogbone, but never used it and still can figure out why I would ever need it. Enlighten me puleeze.

if you're just craggin (like 90%+ of climbers) the haul loop is completely pointless, unless you clip your chalk bag into it, but even then it doesn't need to be full strength. however if you ever do any aid the haul loop is a necessity. Tag lines rock, especially when you're learning and it takes 2 or 3 hours a pitch, your belayer can tie in waterbottles, food, beer and with a quick hand over hand you have them right there. I never used mine until I "started" aiding. Go do a couple walls and the realization that they're a ton of work and the fun parts of aiding are being scared shitless standing on manky gear. Something to do though on the shoulder season when it's too wet to freeclimb though.

I have a R300, I love it. It racks draws and gear with out washing out and flopping around. its comfortable to whip in and sit in. I don't like the little straps that hold the webbing from the waist belt is total balls. the little plastic ring in the back is marketed as a haul loop and is total crap and only good for hanging a chalk bag. I don't feel these take away from this being an awesome harness, they just keep it from being the perfect harness. however do your self a favor get it from REI and return it when you wear it out get another one and repeat.