Nemo or Bibler

Hi, I know there have been numerous discussions on mountaineering tents, but I haven't heard anything about the Nemo Tenshi. It seems equivalent to the I tent/Eldorado in design. Anyone have experience with either or both? BDs warranty seems legally worse(expires after a year), though in practice it seems pretty awesome.

Any thoughts on the different fabrics?

Anyone know what poles the I tent/Eldo uses? Since it doesn't specify them like they do with the firstlight tent(DAC featherweight, same as for Nemo) I figure they are heavier.

I'd consider the firstlight if I heard great reviews, but I don't trust the fabric to be as waterproof and windproof as the toddtex or nemo OSMO.

All suggestions/thoughts appreciated.

I had never heard of NEMO, the tent looks really nice. Older ones seemed to be made of eVent but not anymore, much like the not-for-sale in the US Rab tents, apparently eVent burns very quickly. I'd go for the one with the lifetime warranty as opposed to BD's 1-year warranty. I've been searching around a bit for tents too and have been reading up on these Tarptents they seem really well (American) made, inexpensive, and reliable. Not to make the decision harder, but they're another option, namely the Scarp 2. Don't think I can answer any of your other Q's.

I have a Highlight, which has the same fabric as the Firstlight, and have sat through some really nasty downpours. It was super rainy and very windy for about 12 hours but the tent kept me dry even though a river formed under it. It doesn't seem like the Firstlight has much in the way of venting which would worry me. Oh and that fabric seems to get dirty pretty fast for whatever reason.

You could also consider the Canadian-made Integral Designs MK1 XL ( integraldesigns.com/product…). The fabric ("Tegraltex") is very similar to BD/Bibler ToddTex.

The Eldo uses DAC poles, but they are larger diameter than on the Firstlight. The Bibler is much more waterproof and burly than the Firstlight. The fabric is stronger, the poles are stronger, and the overall stability of the tent in wind and snow is higher. It is also seam taped.

Get the firstlight if you want a 1 or 2 night ultra light assault tent. Get a Bibler if you want something a little burlier for rain, higher wind, and higher snow loads than the firstlight can handle or if you want it to be more durable. The Eldo has some extra space as compared to the firstlight/I tent, which is useful if you aren't setting up on a small shelf.

DON'T BUY THE NEW (GREEN) FIRSTLIGHT TENTS (as of Jan 2011)
They're obviously not meant to be indestructable, but as of Jan 2011 they are NOT build with the same quality as the old ones... I ripped off 3 of 4 attachment points while anchoring it in the snow. Also, the poles popped through the corners (the grommett came with it). BD replaced the tent.

having this said, if you're doing alpine-style ascents the firstlight is hard to beat so long as they fix said issues.

The RAB eVent tents ARE for sale in the US. They are small, with a very low height so they can call them a bivy and so you won't cook in them, but they are also one of the lightetst tents you can get for a quick alpine ascent.

Been loving my Bibler Fitzroy for 15 years now, bomb proof and bone dry. It's tight for 3 people but doable if you have the optional vestibule. About the only negative is the TodTex doesn't pack down as well as other fabrics.

Can't speak as to the Nemo other than their tents look well made and well designed.

Somebody told me this summer that Rab purchased Integral Designs, no idea if that's true or not.

Had a Shires (Tarptent) once, took it for a trip to the Winds. It got flattened by a Thunderstorm while camping in town (Pinedale), wound up taking the Bibler I had packed just in case. Not to say that Tarptents aren't well made, just not up to the conditions I would put a mountaineering tent through, depends on the intended use.

Thanks folks.

I'm sticking with BD or Nemo as I've got a deal on them. I also want that design, light and durable and warm enough for winter camping. I often camp with a tarp in the summer, and I can't see that cutting it for what I am wanting.

Thanks for the comment on the durability and waterproofing of toddtex. I still wish I could find some firsthand experience with Nemo or their OSMO fabric.

Ralph Kolva wrote:Somebody told me this summer that Rab purchased Integral Designs, no idea if that's true or not.

RAB's parent company, Equip Outdoor Technologies ( equipuk.com ) bought Integral Designs in early 2010. Equip also bought the Lowe Alpine brand a couple of months ago.

I have two Nemo tents but have only used one so far. Everything I see on the Nemo tents is awesome... great designs and fabric. Top notch quality.

My Losi 3P Storm is an fantastic 3-season+ tent that I have used for a year... highly recommend.

I bought a Nemo Moki in August off of ebay but have yet to use it. Again, awesome design and construction. Incredible ability to vent. Not sure as to the real world performance and the OSMO fabric yet but the thing seems awesome.

So my take on the Nemo tents in general is that you can't go wrong with any of the models that they offer.

I have had nothing but good things to say about my Eldo. That thing has held up to serious nonstop pounding rain storms over and over. I had a Hi-Light, and it was OK, but would keep it for dryer-only conditions. It wets through pretty quick.

Ryan

I use my BD Firstlight all the time, had it for 2 seasons.

Pros- super light
packs up real small
sets up fast and easy
Cons- vents like crap and condensation is a big problem
waking up with a slightly wet sleeping bag means the whole bag is wet after you stuff sack it and pull it out for the next night

I wouldn't give up my tent because it packs up so well but if I could only have one or plan on multiple nights out, it would be an Eldorado

i have the nemo tenshi but dont have experience with the others ...

i've used it in almost every condition ... summer car camping to spring downpours to alpine mountaineering. the osmo fabric seems to be pretty breathable ... the venting system works well if things start to get too humid.

no regrets ... it's bomber and kinda light and pretty versatile.

Thanks for the Nemo feedback. What's flimsy about the tie in point? Is it not full strength webbing? Are you worried it would rip the tent wall if used?

I figured it would not be a good choice for summer use, but Tony, you found it vented enough for warm rains while keeping out bugs, etc? I'd love to use it bike touring in the warmer months if it was suitable for that.

yeah, i thought the tenshi did pretty well on an extended trip that went from warm rain to winter alpine. given the choice, a full mesh/lighter weight style thing would be better in hot weather obviously ...

that tie in point thing is just a sleeve so it's only as strong as whatever cord/webbing you put in there ... though i've never had the "pleasure" of having had to use it ...

The Tenshi is bomber; I'd absolutely recommend it. The tie in point is, as noted, a sleeve. You can thread any number of cord diameters through it that are more than strong enough to hold you. It's a brilliant design. Tent breathes very well, way better than other single walls I've used. Decent room (I'm 5'9" on a good day). Big vestibule, if you choose to use it, though the vestibule is made of a *really* thin feeling material (but it hasn't ripped or torn yet).

If your worried about warranty by through a site like moosejaw or backcountry that guaruntees all products sold for a lifetime.