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Grand Teton climber receives disorderly conduct fine

Original Post
Buff Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2005 · Points: 1,145
Owen Darrow · · Helena, mt · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 1,790

That rates high on the F-ed up scale!

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265

It's ironic that the climber with a good sense of personal responsibility is the one that was ticketed, while the climber that put himself in a situation that was apparently over his head got away without a ticket after putting rescuers' lives in jeopardy unnecessarily.

That is a tough situation. If darkness was quickly approaching, I can see why the ticketed climber wanted to get down as quickly as possible, but it's also pretty fucked up to leave your partner behind. I can also see why the ticketed climber didn't want to be rescued if he didn't need a rescue. I wouldn't be psyched on hanging from the belly of a helicopter in hostile terrain if I didn't need to be.

People use their SPOTs way too liberally.

"SPOT locators can also be used to 'check in' or send a loved one a signal they are OK. Most of the calls rangers in Grand Teton receive regarding the locators are family members worried because a loved one in the backcountry didn’t use the device to check in, Anzelmo-Sarles said. Usually the backcountry person had simply forgotten."

That's something I never even considered.

--Marc

Kip Kasper · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 200

perfect example of why SPOT devices are bullshit. If he didn't have the safety net of pressing a button to call in the calvary I wonder if he would have just sacked up and bailed with his partner. Good on the guy who bailed for self rescuing.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Hmmmm. Sounds interesting.

(Deleted previous comment since it was based on very little information.)

Josh Kornish · · Whitefish, MT · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 800

People of Mountain Project. "Climber A", Jesse Selwin, is an excellent climber. I've climbed with him many times and he is a very very skilled alpinist. He climbs up to 5.13 and WI 5.

I have to talk to him because I am not exactly sure what happened but do not comment on the skill level of someone you don't know. I know David as well and I'm not sure what happened but both are excellent climbers.

The ice conditions on the Couloir aren't great right now

Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Josh Kornish wrote:"Climber A", Jesse Selwin, is an excellent climber. I've climbed with him many times and he is a very very skilled alpinist. He climbs up to 5.13 and WI 5. I have to talk to him...
Is there something omitted from the article regarding why he felt he couldn't get down without a rescue? I don't understand why he needed a rescue if he's such an experienced alpinist. If you've got protection and a rope, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of skill to build a few anchors to rappel from. But I also don't trust that all pertinent information is in the article. Please enlighten us since you've spoken with the rescued climber.

--Marc
Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

Wow, just a "little" off route!

They had a least two other options (besides reversing the Valhalla traverse) for getting out of there, three if you count the North Ridge.

That's a pretty remote place to wind up with someone you can't agree on a plan of action with! They both bear plenty of responsibility.

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

Here is an article from earlier this summer released by GTNP rangers: gtnpnews.blogspot.com/2011/…

"A ranger inside the helicopter used a white board with the words “OK?” written on it to ask the climbers if they were alright. The climbers gave a thumbs down sign, so rangers responded by writing the words “rescue?” and the climbers gave a thumbs up, indicating they were in trouble and needed help. "

Sounds like they both were in an agreement that Selwyn needed a rescue, but Shade was ok to get down on his own...

Josh Kornish · · Whitefish, MT · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 800
Marc H wrote: Is there something omitted from the article regarding why he felt he couldn't get down without a rescue? I don't understand why he needed a rescue if he's such an experienced alpinist. If you've got protection and a rope, it doesn't take a tremendous amount of skill to build a few anchors to rappel from. But I also don't trust that all pertinent information is in the article. Please enlighten us since you've spoken with the rescued climber. --Marc
This article contains very little information on the situation. Honestly the majority of talk on MP these days is trash talk. Be as arrogant as you want if it makes you feel better. If you weren't there you don't know what the situation was.
Josh Kornish · · Whitefish, MT · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 800
JLP wrote: I'm an arrogant fuck.
Yes, I agree.
Julius Beres · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 364
dolgio wrote:Here is an article from earlier this summer released by GTNP rangers: gtnpnews.blogspot.com/2011/… Sounds like they both were in an agreement that Selwyn needed a rescue...
So, according to that link:
Dave Shade wanted to self rescue, but Jesse Selwyn wanted rescue. Jesse activated his SPOT beacon, and they both waited together until a helicopter flew by and asked if they needed rescue. After they signaled that they needed rescue, Dave left, hoping to self rescue before it got too dark.

That is very different from the original post which makes it sound like Dave just abandoned his partner, not knowing what was going to happen to him. This was in August when the weather was decent and Dave KNEW the helicopters had seen his partner. It seems that leaving before it got too dark was a reasonable thing to do if he was going to self rescue, and since his partner had no intention of going down, taking the rope was also reasonable. His partner was uninjured, healthy, and knew that rescue was coming.

Obviously, I think alpine climbing partners should be able to come to an agreement on how to proceed better than these guys... but if your partner refuses to go down, and you know rescue knows your location and is planning a rescue, I'm not sure I can really fault the guy for leaving. It is very easy to judge, but not being there, I don't see how people can fault Dave. (It would be very different if he left his partner without a rope not knowing if rescue was coming or not... but even in that situation, if he retreated and then notified rescue, he could be in the right... what are you supposed to do, if your partner refuses to go down the mountain?)
Will Butler · · Lyons, CO · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 56
Josh Kornish wrote: This article contains very little information on the situation. Honestly the majority of talk on MP these days is trash talk. Be as arrogant as you want if it makes you feel better. If you weren't there you don't know what the situation was.
Honestly, don't try to defend what seems like an idiotic action without having the facts just because you know the guy.
Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Josh Kornish wrote: This article contains very little information on the situation. Honestly the majority of talk on MP these days is trash talk. Be as arrogant as you want if it makes you feel better. If you weren't there you don't know what the situation was.
Wow. I said that I didn't trust that the article contained all of the pertinent info and that I felt there might be more to it. Since you've spoken with one of the parties involved, it seemed appropriate to ask you to share any extra info that you had. How is that arrogance?

Are you unwilling to share any pertinent facts not presented in the article? Because withholding it makes it seem like there isn't really any more info; you just want us to think there is.

--Marc
Josh Kornish · · Whitefish, MT · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 800
Marc H wrote: Wow. I said that I didn't trust that the article contained all of the pertinent info and that I felt there might be more to it. Since you've spoken with one of the parties involved, it seemed appropriate to ask you to share any extra info that you had. How is that arrogance? Are you unwilling to share any pertinent facts not presented in the article? Because withholding it makes it seem like there isn't really any more info; you just want us to think there is. --Marc
Asking for pertinent information isn't arrogance. I haven't talked to him since this happened. I am going to meet with him soon and I'll find out what happened. I know both climbers and once I know what happened

I'd be happy to share.

The only people I am calling arrogant are the people who think they have insight on the situation when they clearly have none. Sorry for any offense taken. I'll PM the information when I get it. Sorry if I came off too defensive.

Thanks Marc,
Josh
Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Josh Kornish wrote: Asking for pertinent information isn't arrogance. I haven't talked to him since this happened. I am going to meet with him soon and I'll find out what happened. I know both climbers and once I know what happened I'd be happy to share. The only people I am calling arrogant are the people who think they have insight on the situation when they clearly have none. Sorry for any offense taken. I'll PM the information when I get it. Sorry if I came off too defensive. Thanks Marc, Josh
I appreciate that. I must have misunderstood. I thought you said you had spoken to the rescued climber since the incident.

--Marc
Wally · · Denver · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

Hmmmm. Would love to hear first hand what happened because yes, a very odd sequence of events. Certainly sounds like a disagreement with respect to how to proceed. August 19th is typically high season for the Tetons. I have been up there in September - lots of verglass up high certainly could (and did) make things pretty sketch.

johnL - sounds like you have a good guess as to what might have happened.

Marc - while I fully agree with your sentiment, build anchors, and rap to get out of your predicament. However, from the Grandstand to the Lower Saddle is a LONG (a mile plus probably) traverse over semi-technical terrain - not conducive to rapping. Other aspects (i.e. east or north) of the mountain could have been considered for a rappel retreat, although probably not an attractive alternative. ???

Josh - if you or your friends could post info on what happened - not to point fingers - but as a learning experience - might be beneficial to the community. A 5.13 and WI5 climber you would think would be very comfortable getting off this terrain unless he was injured, conditions were awful (ice storm), or he had little mountaineering/alpine experience.

The Grand is a pretty intimidating environment - I have partners I would be totally comfortable up there with and I have partners (great partners) that don't have the experience, frame of mind, toughness, etc. to be in that environment - especially in conditions that are less than ideal.

Dave and Jesse - we all have had epics and mistakes in the mountains we wish we could replay. Too bad this laundry is being aired in public - not sure if I would want some of my fug ups publicly aired. Fortunately you both got throught the ordeal and can move forward - the experience, like for many of us, was probably a good lesson learned.

Interesting story. Wally

Copperhead · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0

Since I don't know the details, I'm not commenting on this event specifically.

However, I did want to point out that leaving the scene of an accident, rescue, or any other incident is usually frowned upon until you are dismissed. Given that he was there when the rescue was initiated, I suppose the rangers were peeved that he wasn't there when they actually did the rescue. In that type of situation, you can't count on a heli's ability to fly, so you can't be sure that the rescue will actually take place in a reasonable amount of time.

Yarp · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0
Copperhead wrote:Since I don't know the details, I'm not commenting on this event specifically. However, I did want to point out that leaving the scene of an accident, rescue, or any other incident is usually frowned upon until you are dismissed. Given that he was there when the rescue was initiated, I suppose the rangers were peeved that he wasn't there when they actually did the rescue. In that type of situation, you can't count on a heli's ability to fly, so you can't be sure that the rescue will actually take place in a reasonable amount of time.
That really interesting how you say you are not going to comment on this specific event and then proceed to write a paragraph commenting on this specific event.

Nice!

Since the one dude showed that it was possible to bail safely the other dudista should be charged the full cost of the rescue. So sayeth me.
Copperhead · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0
Yarp wrote: That really interesting how you say you are not going to comment on this specific event and then proceed to write a paragraph commenting on this specific event. Nice! Since the one dude showed that it was possible to bail safely the other dudista should be charged the full cost of the rescue. So sayeth me.
Right on, one of my posts finally attracted the infamous Yarp. Made my day.
Ben Beard · · Superior, AZ · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 215
Will Butler wrote: Honestly, don't try to defend what seems like an idiotic action without having the facts just because you know the guy.
guilty until proven innocent?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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