static rope question

Robert Cort wrote: The EDK (also known as an overhand bend), if not properly tied, and tightened, can roll.

If properly tied, dressed, & set, it will still roll with enough force on it. Rapping just doesn't put that much on the knot to be an issue. If not properly tied, it will just fall apart.

I wouldn't go with a flat overhand for TR'ing due to cyclical loads. Even if you went with a tensionless setup, there are better knots to use.

More to the OP, If you don't like the double fisherman's, as another choice you could go with a double sheet bend.

Mark Nelson wrote: If properly tied, dressed, & set, it will still roll with enough force on it. Rapping just doesn't put that much on the knot to be an issue. If not properly tied, it will just fall apart. I wouldn't go with a flat overhand with a static for TR'ing due to cyclical loads. Even if you went with a tensionless setup, there are better knots to use. If you don't like the double fisherman's, go with a double sheet bend.

Yeah, I would not use it for anchor set-up, only rappelling as that all the tests I've found are only done on that.

Robert Cort wrote: Ummm...this is really not true. The EDK (also known as an overhand bend), if not properly tied, and tightened, can roll. While the result of the roll is the same knot, after each roll, the tails are shorter. Once the tails are gone, the knot has failed catastrophically. An EDK has it's place, and I use it frequently, but for static line use in an anchor where you will not be pulling the ropes, and therefore are not worried about the rope getting stuck, the EDK isn't the best choice. Use the double fisheman's. Obviously, depending on your anchor setup, there are other choices, but if you just want a loop of rope, double fisherman's is the best choice. By the way, the water knot (ring bend) is not a good choice for rope. Under cycling loading, the water knot gradually eats the tails of webbing, this failure mode also occurs when it's used in rope or cord, but at a slightly faster rate. In the stiff static rope you described, it's likely the worst it can be. Even when used in webbing, you must make sure you have adequate tails, and re-check any permanently tied water knots frequently to be sure the tails are still long enough. Good rule of thumb is if you don't think your tails are long enough in a water knot, tie backup knots (note if your tails are not long enough, you won't have enough to tie the backup knot---it's win-win)

Sorry, I got carried away and started thinking about rappel situations where the EDK wouldn't be much of an issue... however during top-rope where there is the chance of dynamic loading of the rope, it's obviously not a good idea. However, I don't even think a static rope should be use for any climbing situation period... even toproping a static line is a bad idea, because there still can be those lapses of judgement where there might be a foot or two of slack when your climber falls and puts HUGE stress on the rope (not to mention his/her back).

There isn't that much to a climber's TR fall on a static rope as far as stress to the system, the rope, or the climber. They still have some give to them, and the rope is stronger than anything a climber on TR is going to put on it. Unless it's made by some retard selling to a hardware store.

I second the motion for you to get climbing instruction, read books, practice knots and do all this for some time LONG before you venture out to the cliffs again to set up a questionable rope anchor. I commend you for checking in here at MP for advice, but do hope you learn much more and practice it at safe ground level before trying it out on someone while climbing.

J.Roatch wrote:The water note, from what I remember, should only be used on flat "ropes" like webbing. It is not as sturdy on circular rope and so should not be used.

It's also called a ring bend and is equally sturdy with circular rope. See here for it's use as a tie in knot: mountainproject.com/v/ring-…

Anyone heard of the zeppelin bend ? Normally neglected but a very nice knot! Should do the trick for this purpose

Patrick Feeney wrote:...well i was able to get some sterling static rope for cheap and im curious the best method of connecting the two ends...

[Not trying to be a jerk]
I think this is a perfect example of when a thread already has the answers in it (see below) and is kinda done.
Of course, now that I said that I end up adding more redundant information, thus ignoring my own advice. [I am such a hypocrite]

see...

Woodchuck ATC wrote: second the motion for you to get climbing instruction, read books, practice knots and do all this for some time LONG before you venture out to the cliffs again to set up a questionable rope anchor. I commend you for checking in here at MP for advice, but do hope you learn much more and practice it at safe ground level before trying it out on someone while climbing.

...and this...

Evan Horvath aka Evan1984 wrote: But...with a static, you shouldn't really need to join the ends for building anchors too often. If you need to attach to a tree/rock etc, just use a bowline backed up with a fisherman's. If you need to clip into a piece, use a figure eight on a bight.

...for sound advice.

There's something we call a USSR (ultimate slingshot rig) in which a 3-wrap running bowline is tied on one side around a tree (or other variant of knot like a bowline, yes backup=good + other variant of natural anchor like a rock). The other leg of the static line is tied via clove hitch (and easily adjusted and backed-up). Then for super bomber redundancy, 2 8-on-bight knots about a foot or 2 apart for a master point. The result of your 2min of effort is a big V of an anchor out of static line that you could hang a truck from, provided your anchors are decent ;)
Alternatively, one of those legs could be gear or you could turn to cord with multiple pieces.
Of course, there are other variations too.
But this all goes back to the whole "get instruction" posts that have been made. Then you'll know how to rig what and when.

[*edit to add tip: on the static line I used for this purpose, I had about a meter/yard of tubular webbing over each leg of the static line (i.e. webbing opened so it slides over the rope like a ring on finger, or other more crude analogy) near the master point to protect the mantle from the edges of the cliff/rock*]

If you're into that whole book learning thing, there's a great illustration of this idea (as advocated by evan and c travis) in Luebben's Climbing Anchors (the red Mountaineers one). Here's an attempt at posting it.