When is it okay to open your mouth?

I was at Lovers Leap a week ago, climbing Harvey Walbanger a 5.7 when a group of kids around the age of 16 arrived next to us. They had no gear and intended to free solo the 5.6 next door. They were calm and chill so no worries, till they started up the route. 50 feet off the deck they were punching each other, kicking, climbing over each other, yelling ect... I'm thinking WTF! right. Then one of the climbers gets off route and heads up a 5.9 section that is way over her head. She's starts freekin' out and ends up down climbing 15 feet to a ledge. So, I'm new to Nor Cal and I gotta ask the question "When should you open your mouth?"

There are a ton of these lately. When in doubt, keep mum

It's a real hard call and ends badly more often than not, but here are sometimes its okay (of course this is just my opinion):

1. They are endangering you or other nonconsensual participants.
2. One person in the party is misleading a less competent person (i.e. a leader telling a gumby) to do something reckless.
3. They ask for help.
4. You think its a situation of pure naivity and you think your input will be well received.

Generally, people doing sketchy things are not of the temperament to receive criticism AND you have no moral/legal obligation to help them.

I'd say when someone is gonna fall and there is serious potential of injury/death, it's a good time to open your mouth.

Never. Keep it to yourself. It's not you're responsibilty to keep the dumb alive. If you don't like what they are doing, move along. It ultimately doesn't effect you. Why are some people so insistant on telling others what to do?

I was a visiting climber at the Leap a few weeks ago and also saw some soloists. They were, however, all alone, and none of them were doing anything out of the ordinary. That is to say, all of them looked very calm and calculated and you could tell that they were just in the middle of their circuit.

I can't imagine seeing a group of kids scrambling around like that, but it seems like maybe they knew what they were doing and were kind of screwing around? What do you mean by kicking and punching each other? That seems a little weird.

Anyways, what exactly can you do? Sure you can "open your mouth" and tell them that you think they are being unsafe but that's probably not going to keep them from soloing. The way I see it you have two choices: You can go about your business and make the decision ahead of time about what you're going to do if one of them falls (after falling 50 feet they'd be alive, even if only for a few minutes), or you can go climb somewhere else.

This is precisely the reason that I always say that I'm fine with people free soloing stuff, as long as they are low key about it. I try to never solo around people, and if I do, I am sneaky, hoping they don't see me.

About a month ago my girlfriend was working a 5.9 and I was belaying her. 5.9 is about her limit as of right now and she was having some trouble at one part. A local jackass who is always at that specific problem yet claims to climb V12 (Not even close!) comes up and starts yelling stupid shit like "climb it like a ladder". I just lowered her at that point and while we packing up he gave me his ego talk.

"I was just soloing some 5.8s and 9s, I'm so bad ass"

Well in short he starts soloing this climb which is really crimpy right above us without saying anything. If he would have fallen he would have fell 50 feet right on to us. This shit that you're talking about really is dangerous to others!

I don't mind people soloing as I have done a lot of 5.6s-8s. That said

Step in when they start endangering others

Natural selection dude. Don't intervene if you don't have to. If people aren't smart enough to make safe rational decisions, then don't make those decisions for them. Let them either learn from their mistakes or pay the consequences. It's a little like driving, some people wear their seatbelts and some don't. I always wear my seatbelt and it saved my life but everyday your read about those people who knew the risks of not wearing their seatbelts and payed the ultimate price.

I solo climbs I am comfortable on and have had people tell me I'm stupid or dumb or whatever when in reality I was in complete control of the situation. But it pissed me off when they opened their mouths and told me their opinion. Just shut up and climb is how I feel.

16 year olds might do dumb things from peer pressure (more than adults), when their little inner voice is saying, "I shouldn't do this." It could help if an adult points out how dangerous their situation is. Might be enough to convince them to go down. You know, just enough to resist/overcome the peer pressure.

This sounds like a different situation from a soloist - this just sounds like dangerous horseplay.

I wouldn't say something to someone who seems like an actual soloist.

I just soloed my back steps with a joint in my mouth to get another whiskey coke from the kitchen. Call the cops. I hope my pizza gets here before they do though, because I'm hungry.

When climbing and encountering other people doing things that you wouldn't do perhaps the best thing to do is stare at them until they ask you why you're being such a creeper. Then just give it to em' with both barrels and tell em' their gonna die and they're a bunch of ignorant fools. See if that helps you get rid of this urge, that you share with so many others, to tell complete strangers what they should do when it's none of your damn business.

Be SAFE out there!

everyone wants to be honnold ...

as long as they arent putting me in danger, i dont say a word, unless its ROPED climbers and they made an obvious potentially fatal error ... then ill have a quite word

i wonder how many people who're saying it's natural selection have had to deal with a climber decking next to them. it has a way of ruining the day.

sure, others have every right to do stupid shit and kill themselves. they don't have the right to ruin my day, though. so, i speak up to prevent that from happening.

A good friend of mine decked from 35 ft right in front of me. I gave first aid and drove him to the ER because that's what he wanted to me do. I still don't tell him how he "should" be climbing.

Yarp wrote:A good friend of mine decked from 35 ft right in front of me. I gave first aid and drove him to the ER because that's what he wanted to me do. I still don't tell him how he "should" be climbing.

Yarp was one of those 16 year old kids*

Crag Dweller wrote:i wonder how many people who're saying it's natural selection have had to deal with a climber decking next to them. it has a way of ruining the day. sure, others have every right to do stupid shit and kill themselves. they don't have the right to ruin my day, though. so, i speak up to prevent that from happening.

that's funny, you speak up to prevent other people from ruining your day - that's not altruism, it's selfishness.

Edit: So, how do you walk out of your house? There are so many opportunities for others to ruin your day....

Crag Dweller wrote:i wonder how many people who're saying it's natural selection have had to deal with a climber decking next to them. it has a way of ruining the day. sure, others have every right to do stupid shit and kill themselves. they don't have the right to ruin my day, though. so, i speak up to prevent that from happening.

you have the choice of not climbing ...

hell .. my day can be ruined by screaming top ropers ... but it is their right to climb beside me if they are not endangering anyone else

course you do have the right to biatch ;)

just as they have the right to ignore ya

unless yr going to physically restrain someone from soloing =P

Live and let live the way they want.

Josh Kornish wrote: Yarp was one of those 16 year old kids*

Wrong again. Keep reading things into my posts though if that works for you.

natural selection alive and well

Yarp,
I used to disagree with you but with the numerous posts from assholes that cant seem to mind there own damn business anymome I am begining to understand. Fuck em let em all fall to there own deaths as long as they dont post some bs on this sight about horseplay or smoking a doob at the crag. yer all gonna die, hopefully sooner than later!

+1000 For YARP

CascadeKid wrote: that's funny, you speak up to prevent other people from ruining your day - that's not altruism, it's selfishness.

What's funny? He never said anything about having an altruistic motive. And what is wrong with being selfish? He owes no obligation to anyone other than himself and his climbing partner. You imply that selfishness is categorically negative. Will you fault him for being selfish if his self interest, enjoying a day of climbing, prevents an accident?

I also call BS on anyone that claims to be altruistic, with rare exception, people act to further than own interest be it to achieve something or to feel better about themselves.

That said, I'm in the camp of mind my own business and if it is bad enough, I'm leaving to avoid the potential mess.

Alais 1 wrote:Yarp, I used to disagree with you but with the numerous posts from assholes that cant seem to mind there own damn business anymome I am begining to understand. Fuck em let em all fall to there own deaths as long as they dont post some bs on this sight about horseplay or smoking a doob at the crag. yer all gonna die, hopefully sooner than later! +1000 For YARP

Most recent MP phenomenon: Every time Yarp gets a negative review an alternative profile by Yarp is made to side with him. In this case Alais 1, made on September 22, 2011. Yarp: still at 0