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vandalism at Lone Peak

Brad Brandewie · · Estes Park · Joined Apr 2001 · Points: 2,931
Bob Robinson wrote: I'm confused... a community of climbers reporting an abuse of a public resource to the authorities responsible for the vandalized area is wrong?
From an access standpoint, yes it is the wrong move for such a minor incident.
Bobby Hanson · · Spokane, WA · Joined Oct 2001 · Points: 1,230
Brad Brandewie wrote: From an access standpoint, yes it is the wrong move for such a minor incident.
You think that the Forest Service is going to restrict climbing in this area because climbers tattle-tale on hikers? Interesting.
G Traub · · Tetonia, ID · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 5

This is not an access issue. Access will not be restricted because a few idiots tagged Lone Peak. This is about doing the right thing and allowing, or forcing those responsible to go back and clean up after themselves. Maybe they can "tweet" about it.

Scott U · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 5
Brad Brandewie wrote: This is a bad idea. We do not want to point out that some of us are acting with poor judgement to the local management. A better option is to contact the people responsible and ask them to remove it. No one was killed here. We should be able to handle this ourselves. You could just put the word out that someone might want to bring a brush and some appropriate cleaner if they're heading up there. Brad
I disagree. If the powers that be realize that there are many outdoor enthusiasts who do not accept this, they will be more understanding when a couple of d-bags tag the rock.
Abram Herman · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 20
Phil Lauffen wrote: Disagree. Why can't we as users police ourselves? There seems to be a lot of "tattling" occurring here, which imo is super lame. Why would we give managers any more ammo to use against us in access issues?
I agree that we can police ourselves to a large extent (although I wouldn't include these guys in "ourselves"), which is why I suggested managers should get involved only if the offending party refuses to clean up after themselves. If they don't though, you're saying someone else should go clean up their mess, and that will solve the problem? That's like cleaning up after your kid draws all over the living room walls without telling him not to do it again. These guys need to be held responsible, and if they won't take responsibility they need to be made to.
And I completely agree with other commenters, climbers pursuing an access issue like this reflects *well* on our community, not poorly--especially when it wasn't our user group that caused the damage in the first place.
Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 3,098
Abram Herman wrote: I agree that we can police ourselves to a large extent (although I wouldn't include these guys in "ourselves"), which is why I suggested managers should get involved only if the offending party refuses to clean up after themselves. If they don't though, you're saying someone else should go clean up their mess, and that will solve the problem? That's like cleaning up after your kid draws all over the living room walls without telling him not to do it again. These guys need to be held responsible, and if they won't take responsibility they need to be made to. And I completely agree with other commenters, climbers pursuing an access issue like this reflects *well* on our community, not poorly--especially when it wasn't our user group that caused the damage in the first place.
Ok... I understand why land managers would be contacted after the turds refused to clean up their mess. But all this preemptive action is not helpful.
sam123456789 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 0

Shiho, you may be the coolest person I've ever met.
"Unless someone like you cares a whole aweful lot, nothing is going to get better, it's not!" -Sir Lorax.

ddriver · · SLC · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 2,084
Phil Lauffen wrote: Ok... I understand why land managers would be contacted after the turds refused to clean up their mess. But all this preemptive action is not helpful.
Preemptive action? This is just a message board.

If you haven't looked at the facebook pages that were posted previously, maybe you should do so, if they're still up. These are two guys who hiked to the summit of Lone Peak, tagged it, tweeted (really, WTF?), and then of course reported their ascent as a "climb." Yeah, whatever... you FUCKING LOSERS.

There is no local organization or individual who is responsible for clueing these guys in. What I would love to see happen is for the USFS ranger and the County sheriff show up at their doors and march their little asses right back up there to clean their mess up. These are the kinds of people who wind up destroying archeological sites and torturing cats. That's what needs to be preempted.

I guess an alternative would be to leave a big steaming pile of shit at their front doors. Seems like the least I could do.
Phil Lauffen · · Innsbruck, AT · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 3,098
ddriver wrote: Preemptive action? This is just a message board.
Ok... but what about the many messages sent to the AUTHORI-TAYS?!

ddriver wrote: If you haven't looked at the facebook pages that were posted previously, maybe you should do so, if they're still up. These are two guys who hiked to the summit of Lone Peak, tagged it, tweeted (really, WTF?), and then of course reported their ascent as a "climb." Yeah, whatever... you FUCKING LOSERS.
Good point... I forgot that climbers are automatically better than hikers, always.

ddriver wrote: There is no local organization or individual who is responsible for clueing these guys in.
We are, their peers.

ddriver wrote: What I would love to see happen is for the USFS ranger and the County sheriff show up at their doors and march their little asses right back up there to clean their mess up. These are the kinds of people who wind up destroying archeological sites and torturing cats. That's what needs to be preempted. I guess an alternative would be to leave a big steaming pile of shit at their front doors. Seems like the least I could do.
These guys are clueless. I think that with a little friendly guidance, and less personal attacks they would wise up and treat the outdoors with the respect it deserves. Shitting on their porch isn't going to stop them from spraying graffiti over cave paintings, its going to teach them that nobody has respect for anything and they can do whatever to whoever.
mountainsense · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 455

Alright, folks--there's nothing more to say here... The problem, is resolved. I highly suggest we refrain from any more internet shit-talking; it can only serve to complicate what started out as a rather simple issue, and inviting the climbing community-at-large to take Facebook and Mountainproject pot-shots at these guys ad nauseum is tantamount to middle-school online bullying--do we really think that after the third or fourth nasty message that they'll experience some epiphany and, subsequently, change their entire outlook? And notifying Pleasant Grove? I envy all those out there, the straight-shooters, who pride themselves in always having followed the rules--you all sound like heaps of fun to hang out with... If what a couple of guys you don't even know did offends you so much that you feel it neccessary to keep this up, then, by all means, why not join us in becoming a constructive part of the solution? Meet me at Lone Peak Cirque for our 2nd Annual Labor Day Weekend Clean-up. Disperse a few fire rings in-between routes. Let's share a rope. If there are, indeed, this many people out there who share in my enthusiasm for Wasatch stewardship, then put your money where your mouth is. Walk the walk. I'll see you there.

Zac Robinson · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 415

sounds great.

at least we can weed out all the people from other states who have never been there and yet claim they know what is best for our local climbing areas.

Thanks for posting Shiho. Those guys probably got the hint that they are idiots. Now lets get up there and enjoy the alpine.

Shiho · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 100

Thanks Zac. I didn't think that this thread was going to be this big. My intention was to get just a few people's attention and have them send messages to those two because I didn't think that they'd listen to a little Japanse girl yapping at them and telling them to clean up their mess. I'm glad that people here are passionate about keeping our alpine area pristine. I really hope that those two will come up and clean up their mistake.

Mike Stearns · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 1,607
mountainsense wrote:why not join us in becoming a constructive part of the solution? Meet me at Lone Peak Cirque for our 2nd Annual Labor Day Weekend Clean-up. Disperse a few fire rings in-between routes. Let's share a rope. If there are, indeed, this many people out there who share in my enthusiasm for Wasatch stewardship, then put your money where your mouth is. Walk the walk. I'll see you there.
Well put! I wish I could get back to Utah for this, but I'll have to keep picking up trash here in Santa Barbara. Local party guys have a much shorter walk to tag and litter here.
Brian in SLC · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Oct 2003 · Points: 21,711
ddriver wrote:I guess an alternative would be to leave a big steaming pile of shit at their front doors. Seems like the least I could do.
Could you then at least post of picture of it?

Thanks!
sfluke · · SLC · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 0

A tweet will do...

josh holmes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 215

Ha! "middle-school bullying"?
Would you prefer it if people didn't speak out about the atrocities they see in their world?
(oh that really upsets me that he did that, but god forbid I speak my mind...I wouldn't want somebody to think I was bullying them to clean up after themselves, or be responsible enough from the start to not make the mess in the first place).
The tribe raises the child and in my opinion these children need to have their errors pointed out in the hopes that they will correct them.
Regardless of their ignorance or whatever excuse they have for vandalizing the summit, what they did is wrong and should not be accepted.
I could think of a lot worse things than exposing their errors to their peers.

Perin Blanchard · · Orem, UT · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 8,479
clackmon wrote:[Various uninformed statements]
If you knew anything about who you're bad mouthing here, you'd be rather embarrassed.
minielle · · Holladay, Utah · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 50
mountainsense wrote: Meet me at Lone Peak Cirque for our 2nd Annual Labor Day Weekend Clean-up.
Where can I get more information about this?
BrianH Pedaler · · Santa Fe NM · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 50
johnL wrote: If I got more than a couple emails a day telling me that I'm a douche, I might be inclined to reflect on it.
Best.Post.Ever! FTW!
darrell hodges · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 380
clackmon wrote: i seriously doubt it even if i WAS 'bad mouthing' who you say i was
Some people just don't get embarassed and the internets are full of anonymous shit talkers.

After reading through this, it's apparent to me that "Mountainsense" has the best take on this situation.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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