Tag Line: static or dynamic?

Alright, so I have a question for the climbing community regarding the use of static vs. dynamic tag lines on routes requiring double rope rappels. It seems quite common to carry a 7mm static pull cord along with your lead line for such routes. However after giving it some thought, it seems this can be quite problematic if when pulling your ropes the lead line becomes stuck.

I'm assuming that you set up the rappel so that you pull the skinnier tag line, and rappel on the thicker lead line (or just rap on both ropes)...this would allow the knot to jam against the anchor (of which you should back up of course). But if you pull the ropes and your lead line gets stuck, you are left with a measly 7mm pull cord to deal with the situation. I guess if the lead line became stuck far enough down the rappel you could potentially lead back up on its other end, but this may not be the case. Also, most people with any sense would not jug up a stuck rope.

I have always used one of my double ropes as a tag line, and in this situation at least I could lead on it if I had to. So...is saving a bit of weight by bringing the static pull cord really worth it?

Mitch Musci wrote: So...is saving a bit of weight by bringing the static pull cord really worth it?

It worth it in the right situation. If your doing lots of rappels and wandering routes you might be better off with a light set of double ropes.

I prefer a thin lead line like 9.5-9.8, larger if there is any jugging paired with a 5.5-6mm tag line, light set up, and works great. I have been useing the bluewater searchline made of technora (high melting point) and dynmaic properties. The alpine escape rope by espirit is nice as well.

For what it's worth, I've had the same 8mm static tag line for 7 years now. Statics are usually quite durable and lightweight, but despite that, my next tag will be a dynamic (a thin, double rope). The potential utility of having another line to be able to lead on in various situations would make it absolutely worth it. And since I'm never hauling more than a bullet pack and rarely jugging the thin line... there really aren't any compelling reasons in my opinion for getting a static.

I use 60m of 6mm cordlette, it worked great for years.

If you are going to be using 7mm or larger you might as well be using double ropes because you are not saving any weight. The whole point of using a thin pull cord is for light weight situation where you might need to rappel. Some might goe as small as 3mm or use parachute cord. I like the 5.5-6mm because I can still rap on it and don't have to rely on a biner block for safety.

Highlander wrote:If you are going to be using 7mm or larger you might as well be using double ropes because you are not saving any weight.

Right, but on some climbs I prefer to lead on a single rope vs a pair of doubles. Which would leave me with the decision of choosing one of my double ropes as a tag line, or a skinnier static pull cord...

Which brings me back to my original post! It still seems like you are up shit creek if your lead line gets stuck and all you have is a big chunk of accessory cord.

I have also heard that anything smaller than 7mm is super difficult to manage since it is harder to pull and gets really twisted.

My situation is similar to Josh's, but I orignally got the 8mm static for a haul line to solo one-nighter walls in Zion. I was hauling fairly light loads, maybe 60lb max, but still wanted less stretch and a little extra durability and 7mm was out of the question due to strength and size (need the hauling device or jug to be able to bite and 8mm is already pushing it with most of them).

That cord then became my go-to lightweight tag/rap line for the last 10 years. 7mm is just too skinny for me, they seem to get tangled a lot and below 8mm I don't think the negligibly lighter weight is worth the strength loss. My next tag/rap line will probably be an 8mm dynamic half rope or similar specifically so I can lead on it if I absolutely had to since I don't forsee any short wall solos or lightweight hauling in my future.

My few irretrievably stuck rap ropes were 5:1 where just wouldn't pull from the get-go compared to hanging something on the way down. So no re-leading on the tag so far, but close a few times.

I have 60m of 7mm accessory cord I use as a pull cord.
I dislike this setup.

It is really really hard to pull. If there is even a hint of friction in the pull it becomes exhausting to pull the full length of it. And it is necessary in a rappel to pull the 7mm not the thicker cord. If you pull the thicker cord, the thin one will often get caught around everything in sight as it tumbles down.

For most situations I'd rather trail an extra half rope even if I'm leading on a single rope. Its that much easier to pull.

Mitch Musci wrote: Which brings me back to my original post! It still seems like you are up shit creek if your lead line gets stuck and all you have is a big chunk of accessory cord.

No you're not. This is self rescue 101. If your rope gets stuck you can do a roped solo up to get it. You almost always have one end of the rope at the belay. Your dynamic rope is not going to pull through the anchors most likely until you already have one end in your hands. This means you still have options. If the rope gets stuck you can lead up on what chunk of rope you do have. This way you are trying to unstuck the rope say 70' from the tangle instead of 130'. If that does not work you can do a roped solo of the entire pitch with a GriGri or two locking biners and a clove hitch. This will allow you to reclimb the entire pitch all the way up to where the rope is stuck. Now granted doing these things are risky and they are always easier said than done, but as long as you have one end of the rope you have options.

20kn thanks for your input, that is definitely a reasonable solution to a tricky problem. I have heard of bizarre incidents where the end of the rope gets jammed in the anchor as it is pulled...and if it was a full length rappel you might have to climb up a bit to build an anchor to rope solo off of. So ultimately you're not up shit creek per say, but on a different note, if your lead line gets the chop and all you have is a static cord, your situation may become more serious than if your second cord was dynamic. Thanks for the discussion everyone!

Mitch Musci wrote:20kn thanks for your input, that is definitely a reasonable solution to a tricky problem. I have heard of bizarre incidents where the end of the rope gets jammed in the anchor as it is pulled...and if it was a full length rappel you might have to climb up a bit to build an anchor to rope solo off of. So ultimately you're not up shit creek per say, but on a different note, if your lead line gets the chop and all you have is a static cord, your situation may become more serious than if your second cord was dynamic. Thanks for the discussion everyone!

Yes if the rope got jammed at the anchors and you couldent reach either end, that would make things a PIA. But you can still get down. Just rap with the cordlette and build trad anchors in between the normal rap stations until you get down. Granted then you would have to reclimb the route again to get your gear back, but at least you would be back on the ground.

Another issue worth mentioning, however, is what if the rock between you and your stuck rope is featureless...impossible to free climb, and maybe impossible to aid? In this circumstance the only option I can think of (as opposed to just ditching the stuck rope and descending the remaining rappels with a single line) would be to start jugging the stuck rope while being lead belayed on your *dynamic* tag line...and hopefully getting in some protection on your way up. Or I guess you could jug the stuck rope AND rope solo on it at the same time, as long as you could get some pro in to catch a fall if the stuck rope suddenly pops free. Let's hope it never comes to this!

20 kN wrote: Yes if the rope got jammed at the anchors and you couldent reach either end, that would make things a PIA. But you can still get down. Just rap with the cordlette and build trad anchors in between the normal rap stations until you get down. Granted then you would have to reclimb the route again to get your gear back, but at least you would be back on the ground.

Supposing that you've rappelled the full length of your rope, and the ropes get stuck after pulling down 20 m of your accessory cord tag line. You now have 20 m of accessory cord in your hand. Would you really want to try making twenty 10 m rappels? Would you have enough gear to leave behind?

I've probably had five percent of double rope rappels I've done end up with a stuck rope. I don't do double rope rappels very often, and it's happened at least 3 times that a rope has gotten stuck.

I have an 8 static, I like it.