Aid Question: Dirty Aid Ethics in the Valley
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I want to climb a number of short aid routes in the Valley listed in the Reid guide under the "A" ratings, sometimes with a 'diry' rack suggestion listed. Since the book lists numerous routes as such that I know now have a "C" rating, I wouldn't want to pound away prematurely at a "C" route, nor run up a still legit "A" route without the proper gear. So my conundrum is that while I am happy to attempt to climb aid routes as cleanly as possible and then use my judgement on when to resort to playing with my pitons, if a route has been re-established as a clean aid line, I wouldn't want to exercise poor form. Since I am still pretty new to aid climbing, I'd worry that I might slip into dirty aid techniques prematurely since I have limited experience with C2 and none so far with C3 (which I'm aiming to change this winter!) |
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Keep climbing intro aid routes . What walls have you done ? Obviously there are some classic walls in Yosemite where you will be ran out of town if you choose to nail , The Nose , West Face Leaning Tower ,Triple Direct , Spire Tip , South Face Washington Column etc. I understand your conundrum though , when is it the right time to nail and when do you sack up and try to aid clean with possibly very tenuous gear ? Obviously some experts have climbed Zodiac clean but 99% of people who do Zodiac still brings pitons . |
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vincent L. wrote: Obviously there are some classic walls in Yosemite where you will be ran out of town if you choose to nail , The NoseYou mean I shouldn't have brought a hammer on The Nose? |
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What for , did you build something ? |
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For now I'd be preferring to focus more on practicing clean aid, but for most of the climbs listed, it is unclear how doable they are done clean. SuperTopo only lists a handful of clean routes, and most of these are off limits in winter since they are on the base of El Cap (I don't like ice raining on me, and it was bad enough in May!), so I'd be wanting to venture onto these other short aid climbs in Merced Canyon where it is unknown whether the route has been done/re-established clean. They look to be more obscure, so it's not like I'll be nailing my way up Nutcracker, but don't want to be jumping the gun on cracking pitons in the Valley either. |
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If a route goes clean then you should aspire to do it clean as well. Nailing on a route that goes clean is frowned upon, however there are lots of grey areas. Many routes rely on fixed gear to go clean, if that fixed gear is missing then you have to find a way to get through it, the last resort is to break out the hammer. An example, my partner and I climbed Zodiac hammerless (did not take a hammer), we relied on clean gear (camhooks, hybrid aliens, tricams, and hand placing pitons), however parties use the hammer on that route daily. It is all about skill and style, try pushing your abilities and do the route clean, it can be much more rewarding then using the hammer and making it A1. I will say however that if there is a bad fall potential as in you may hit something or swing into an object if you rip several pieces of gear, it may be wise to hammer in a piton. Overall be conservative in your nailing, too many people get carried away and excited about bashing in some pins instead of using their creativity to get through a section or route clean. Do your haomework and research the route and ask other climbers. Spare the rock..... |
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Def post this on the supertopo forums if you haven't already. There's a lot more people over there that will be able to give you beta on the routes you're interested in. |
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Will do! It's hard to keep the posts from being buried there, but if I just know whether a given route actually goes clean, that will save me most of my uncertainty here :-) |
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There are so many fantastic clean aid routes in Yosemite Valley and in Southern Utah. For the Valley I recommend buying offset cams, hooks, and cam hooks long before investing in pins. For the desert, I recommend buying a couple sets of offset nuts, especially dmm sizes 4-6(brass) and 7-8(aluminum). After you have done the Valley clean classics (west face leaning tower, the prow, zodiac, nose, salathe, ten days after, etc), the modern basic iron rack is composed most importantly of beaks (esp medium and large), and sawed angles. I believe that these are the modern basics because these can often be placed clean, or with just a few gentle taps of the hammer. Most lost arrow cracks can now be securely climbed with a combination of cam hooks, small cams (000 c3 useful), and small offset nuts. With a strong rack of beaks, knifeblades are only useful for horizontal cracks. Beaks are consistently more secure than knifeblades, more easily placed, and less damaging to the rock. |
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Mark P Thomas wrote:Will do! It's hard to keep the posts from being buried there, but if I just know whether a given route actually goes clean, that will save me most of my uncertainty here :-)It is true that sometimes "Clean" routes require a bit of fixed gear to go clean at the stated grade. The Prow is a good example because it require a few heads or beaks to go clean at C2, but usually the route is "in condition" to go clean at this grade (meaning the necessary fixed gear is usually fixed). Supertopo trip reports are excellent resources for determining the condition of a route. Personnaly, when doing a fixed-gear-dependent clean route, I usually put contigency gear in the bottom of my haul bag. This contingency gear generally includes a hammer, a few beaks, and a few sawed angles, and sometimes a heading kit (route dependent variable). When the hammer is in the bottom of the bag I am more likely to unlock the clean solution, though I am not hosed if its too hard. If you want any route specific spray downs I may be able to help. |
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Ben Doyle wrote: Supertopo trip reports are excellent resources for determining the condition of a route. Personnaly, when doing a fixed-gear-dependent clean route, I usually put contigency gear in the bottom of my haul bag. This contingency gear generally includes a hammer, a few beaks, and a few sawed angles, and sometimes a heading kit (route dependent variable). When the hammer is in the bottom of the bag I am more likely to unlock the clean solution, though I am not hosed if its too hard. If you want any route specific spray downs I may be able to help.Bingo. Ben's spot on, both about the bottom of the bag stash and checking on Supertopo for updated info. I would put a few beaks on your rack, however, rather than at the bottom of the bag. They can make for great placements, even without the hammer. BTW, I think it's great that you're wanting to adhere to the clean aid standards, but there really aren't that many short aid routes that get well traveled in anticipation of doing a subsequent wall. People sometimes climb the first pitch of a trade route, etc., but many will just go climb something that goes clean and figure it out along the way. |
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Re-posting of a post re-posted in 2008, but worth re-reading: |
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SeanKuus wrote: You mean I shouldn't have brought a hammer on The Nose?Just on Nutcracker. :-p |
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Ben Doyle - Thanks for the rack recommendations! I have a full clean rack right now including 1 set of offset nuts & 1 set of offset cams. I have 1 full set of Bugaboos & KBs that I had been playing around with for some alpine stuff (with practice placing & cleaning with my ice tool - just got my aid hammer & funkness device this month!), and I was wondering what strategy to take for growing an iron rack. Especially starting with pieces that can still be rigged for creative clean placements. |
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A good clean aid rack: |
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Supertopo is a way better resource for answers to questions about specific routes. I can tell you that the Coffin Nail has gone free and shouldn't get nailed; the Stigma is a great clean aid exercise; the base of middle brother is a great place to get hit by rockfall; the slog up to the Kat Pinnacle should be a poison oak museum; and there is a great list of introductory aid lines somewhere on supertopo. |
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Thanks for the beta on the other routes! Rob Dillon wrote: If you're gonna 'practice' nailing go find a roadcut that no one cares about and pound on it instead. The gear doesn't know it's only 5' off the ground and you can learn a lot in a short time without fukking around with a belay.I just noticed last weekend how nice the rock beside Highway 120 on Tioga Pass looks for nailing for the sake of practice nailing. Lots of cracks of all sorts of sizes, right off the ground, some solid splitters and some in looser rock. I wonder if I could nail there without being hassled? |
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I imagine you mean outside of the park boundary in Lee Vining Canyon. If you are out of sight of the road you are much less likely to be hassled. Although, I don't think anything in Lee Vining Canyon qualifies as "road cuts that no one cares about." |
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Mark P Thomas wrote:Thanks for the beta on the other routes! I just noticed last weekend how nice the rock beside Highway 120 on Tioga Pass looks for nailing for the sake of practice nailing. Lots of cracks of all sorts of sizes, right off the ground, some solid splitters and some in looser rock. I wonder if I could nail there without being hassled?So let's see if I have this right. Rather than climbing an existing aid route that takes pins and probably already has pin scars, you're going to climb a clean crack (albeit roadside) and slam some pins into it? |
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Fat Dad wrote: So let's see if I have this right. Rather than climbing an existing aid route that takes pins and probably already has pin scars, you're going to climb a clean crack (albeit roadside) and slam some pins into it?The cracks aren't that clean, or at least not for that long. They are one level above choss, IMO, and are on the section of Hwy 120 outside of Yosemite (e.g. around camp 9). I imagine that even an existing 'dirty' aid route would be better reserved for climbers who can aid without damaging the rock too much, with such bashing left for crappy cracks. Wouldn't it be better to be damaging such rock right alongside a roadway anyways, rather than hiking more into the backcountry? I have two aims here: One is to learn to aid climb as cleanly as possible - and totally clean, or bail, if the route has been established or re-established as clean and I can't do it as such. The other is to learn dirty techniques in appropriate locations since they are still needed on some routes. Apart from the ordering of starting with clean techniques and moving to dirty ones in terms of style, I don't see a reason to not to practice the techniques in parallel so long as you don't slide into lazy nailing. I imagine honoring existing ratings for a route pretty much prevents that? |
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Fwiw, the "C" rating is kinda new, and often depends on a "f" meaning fixed heads or pins. Nail away, if it makes you feel manly, or go clean if it makes you feel manlier. I'm happier hooking, nutting and cam hooking myself. |