Waimea Perma Draw Discussion

Tristan, im on board with you man, same thing i was saying in my post. Unfortunately, James et al aint interested:

"I believe that it would be a responsible gesture for Waimea stewardship to gather a bunch of locals to chip in whatever they can"

"Let me be clear: this was not meant to be a discussion of ethics... We WILL be fixing certain lines on Waimea..."

Seems he wants your MONEY not your opinion - thats fair, right?

btw, answer your f'ing phone

Why don't all the locals get together and donate what they can. Whatever is left over needing to be replaced, well, put up a sign and a box for quickdraw donation. Im sure there are plenty of newbies who would gladly donate a draw of theirs just to see it hanging on a 5.13. Back in the day when i climbed at rumney, i would replace one or two key pieces of gear on my projects that needed it (cause who wants to whip onto a biner that sticks open?). Turns out those biners/gear that are half worn thru make great key chains, water bottle holders, gear slings, etc.

There are actually a fair amount of trad routes of all grades at Rumney if you look around.

I agree about Tsunami. I understand Lee being psyched and wanting to make it easier for people to get on it. It is a great route, but it is also pretty easy to get your draws on and off it, especially since most will do Techno as a warmup and that route shares the same anchor. When I used to climb it, I don't remember any of the clips being difficult. Better to put the perma on the steeper routes like Whip Tide and Man Overboard with the big roof finish IMO. Techno is climbed by everybody, either as a warmup for harder routes or as a project. Techno was climbed for ever without permas, but being so hugely popular now and diagonaling up the cliff, permas do keep traffic moving. I think they are all right if kept in good shape and other routes are kept clean.

By the way, locals have been having a good constructive discussion about all this and all perspectives are represented, so don't be worried that a small clique is running amuck. Most of us are very aware of keeping things under control and not letting the place become a cesspool. We have been discussing which are really needed and which can and should be eliminated and what the Forest Service requires of us. If you are an RCA member or otherwise are a Rumney user get in touch with Kayte. She made a discussion group for Rumney issues for us. It is by invite, not to exclude differing opinions, but to keep it manageable without too much chaos from everybody from Timbuktu jumping in while not knowing what is going on. Here is a better place for that.

I just read that RRG locals collected enough $$ to put in a $2600 order with Climb Tech in Nov 2010. Given that sum, CT gave a deep discount and paid for the shipping (no small matter) of around 270 Perma Draws of the standard length and build to Lexington, KY.

S. Neoh wrote: Is there a moratorium on equipping more routes with fixed draws?

Yes, with some wiggle room, but it shouldn't be abused. We are basically at the point where things have slid some from the agreement we made a few years ago, and now we need to clean it up (a periodic job), by getting rid of some of the draws and replacing the ones we need to keep with better, more discrete ones.

So please forgive me if this is a dumb question - are we looking to have all fixed draws (which are different from someone's one-season project draws) be of the Climb Tech Perma Draw type?
And we need to reduce the number of routes equipped with fixed draws?

ill be happy to take my draws back since people dont want em up... seems crazy to me considering that everyone loves having draws on Big K which might be one of the easiest routes on the cliff to clean and not nearly as fun in my opinion...

Lee, which routes do you have your draws on? I've not taken any draw down if you are wondering .....

Lee I would say leave them up, I think what you did was a good thing (and maybe Im being a little selfish because I would like to start trying that route this fall). But I think that If Aquarius, Techno, and Restless are deserving there is nothing that makes this less deserving, I know the route has seen more traffic since the draws have been up. So Lee, Im going to say thank you for your personal investment.

Also, how can I contribute to the fund?

I am pretty neutral on this topic. I see fair points all around.

. . .

Sorry, forgot this was the internets. Let me rephrase.

MY OPINION (WHICH IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOURS) IS THAT I AM THOROUGHLY NEUTRAL ON THIS TOPIC!!! I SEE FAIR POINTS ALL AROUND, JACKASS!!!!

MY OPINION (WHICH IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOURS) IS THAT I AM THOROUGHLY NEUTRAL ON THIS TOPIC!!! I SEE FAIR POINTS ALL AROUND, JACKASS!!!!
hahahaha nice!!!

snoah- i wasnt under the impresion that you or anyone had messed with my draws... but thanks for reasuring me...

matt-if you are projecting it then ill leave them up a while cause then they are project draws rather than fixed draws ;) see what i did there...

Lee , Im not project them as of now but I would like to be in the not to distant future :) Got any good beta? haha

Lee, take them down please, and as youll see above, i argue that Big K does not need fixed draws either but have no expectation of that happening. By your rationale ("Big K has fixed draws, why not tsunami?") we should be fixing draws on all waimea routes which i think everyone will agree is wrong. lets just keep tsunami un-fixed because historically it hasnt been and does not need it.

Matt, if it helps keep you psyched on Tsunami, there are exactly zero hard clips on the route and it is easy to clean from techno or even fyling hawaiian.

well im not against fixing the whole cliff (i love fixed draws) but to use your line "i have no expectation of that happening"...

im sure we will all keep getting along out there even if we might never agree on some things....
happy climbing :)