South Africa

Hoping to spend a month or so down there, probably a year or more away but still, flights from London aren't too bad...

Anyone been? Worth the trip for two adventurous types that can't stand (but know how to deal with) touts and people trying to rip us off. What are the locals like?

What is the general vibe of Capetown? I imagine it to be a bit like Manila, with rich neighborhoods right next to the slums. Kind of a weird feeling...

We always live on the cheap, but splurge once or twice per trip. What are the costs like?

Climbing (duh), good bouldering yes, but what about the sport and trad? What's Table Mountain like? Weather?

Other fun stuff... surfing and climbing make sense? Cool treks and trail runs? Anything else to see down there? What's the night life like?

Is a month to long? Should we look into spending half the time in Madagascar? Namibia? Zimbabwe? I don't think we could afford to do South Africa AND Kenya, which is another place I'd like to see. Anyone been there?

I'm a newbie on this site, but I'm planning a trip there as well in the next 6 months or so, a good friend is in the Peace Corps there.

Cape Town sounds like it's a pretty cool place with a good night life too. Another friend went to grad school around those parts and loved it. From what my friend says the dollar goes pretty far there (I think $1 is about 7 rand if I remember)so I'm looking forward to that!

Kruger Nat'l Park is a cool safari wildlife refuge place, it's closer to Johannesburg though. I'll be traveling from J'burg down the eastern coast to Cape Town over about a month. Definitely want to check out some of the bouldering near Cape Town too.

Flights are around 1500 direct on Delta, and much cheaper from Europe.

I'll quit rambling but thought I'd chime in since I've been researching a trip too!

You could spend years in SA. I thought about moving there for a job a few years ago and still regret not doing it. I haven't been there in 5-6 years, but it was reasonable last time I was there. Really cheap isn't all that doable though - trying to really slum it or free camp has definite security issues in most places.

Locals are nice, but there is the huge wealth/poverty divide. In general, you'll be so insulated from the poverty aspect that you'll only notice it in cheap housekeepers and bars on the windows. Definitely not much like Manila - way more first world feeling with the slums walled off.

Cape Town is great. Really beautiful place - maybe the prettiest big city i've ever been in, and the wineries in town are good and the ones an hour or two away are amazing. Much more Anglophone than Boer which I prefer. Think of Table Mountain as the Gunks with better rock, routes up to 12 pitches, and a sea view. Amazing place. Weather can be foggy, but never gets too hot or too cold. The hiking/trekking on the cape is also just phenomenal.

Surfing in SA is awesome. Around Cape Town, there is very cold water on the Atlantic side and bathtub water on the False Bay and Indian Ocean Side. SA is really sharky so keep that in mind. Around Cape Town I liked Llandudno on the Atlantic side, which also has fun coarse grained granite bouldering - bring some titanium glue ins to replace bolts on the sport routes if you know how. Muizenburg is a friendly easy going beach break on the False Bay side. If you drive 4-5 hours east, you get to Jeffrey's Bay and environs, which is one of surfing's holy lands. It isn't always working, but when it is there aren't many better places anywhere in the world.

The sport climbing at Watervall Boven halfway between Joburg and Kruger is great - think bolted Eldo in quality - and the camping is good. There are awesome big granite domes that get little traffic in the Drakensburgs - think bigger version of the South Platte in CO or kinda like Tuolomne. Kruger park is also not to be missed, though if you want a real wildlife safari you might think about Botswana instead.

Holler if any other questions - I spent a ton of time there so I know the place well and love it.

I just got back from Capetown and Joburg about a month ago. It's an incredible place and you won't regret going! I much preferred Capetown, but it will probably feel less African than you might expect. It is a beautiful city and I felt completely safe, even late at night. Yes, there is a huge disparity between rich and poor, but if you seek authentic cultural experiences you will have no problem finding them. Touring Soweto/Kliptown in Johannesburg (there are also many townships in Cape Town as well) was literally a life changing experience for me. I normally don't like group tours but it's probably not a good idea to go to those places alone, and the tour guides did a really great job.

Unfortunately I couldn't do any climbing during my stay but the India Venster route up Table Mountain is a great morning hike and a drive down the coast to Cape Point is a must. The costs are reasonable but not super cheap...much more affordable than Europe, though!

Was gonna chime in but Andrew covered everything I was going to say already.
Have a great trip.

If you're looking for more info try climb.co.za.

Here's an old picture of mine to whet your appetite.

Wow, thanks guys. Sounds like at least 4 weeks is needed. I'm surprised at how cheaply I'll be able to get there from London... somehow I don't think I'll be surprised in the same way by the costs while I'm there, but you can't have it all, right? If it's really cheaper than Europe, well, that's all I could ask for. Europe ain't that bad but I guess I think in GBP now...

Anyways, I should have asked, but do you guys have experience with long term car rental? I'm sure it's easy enough to get around w/o one but I think we'll want one for the climbing, which sound amazing! 12 pitches of the Gunks? Yes please!

Also, Andrew, you mentioned camping, which I kind of forgot to ask about. Reasonable camping (safety and price, proximity to supplies) near the climbing areas?

Thanks for the info. I will probably send you a PM or two once I start planning for real, but you've said enough to make me really want to go!

Final question... seasons for travel? Was assuming that the best time is northern hemisphere spring and fall, reversed of course.

Thanks again!

Ryan Williams wrote:Wow, thanks guys. Sounds like at least 4 weeks is needed. I'm surprised at how cheaply I'll be able to get there from London... somehow I don't think I'll be surprised in the same way by the costs while I'm there, but you can't have it all, right? If it's really cheaper than Europe, well, that's all I could ask for. Europe ain't that bad but I guess I think in GBP now... Anyways, I should have asked, but do you guys have experience with long term car rental? I'm sure it's easy enough to get around w/o one but I think we'll want one for the climbing, which sound amazing! 12 pitches of the Gunks? Yes please! Also, Andrew, you mentioned camping, which I kind of forgot to ask about. Reasonable camping (safety and price, proximity to supplies) near the climbing areas? Thanks for the info. I will probably send you a PM or two once I start planning for real, but you've said enough to make me really want to go! Final question... seasons for travel? Was assuming that the best time is northern hemisphere spring and fall, reversed of course. Thanks again!

Costs: I can't speak about accommodation costs, but food costs appear to have increased over the last five years. Five or ten years ago, my experience was, that on an average US salary, one did not have to think too much about the cost of a grocery store trip or eating out. Last December, it seemed that costs of grocery store items and eating out were approaching those of the US - maybe 10% or so cheaper. You'll definitely get more service when eating out in SA though than at comparably priced places in the US! But it's not a budget destination in these terms like, say Central America.

Cars: If it's summer and you're in Cape Town, reserve a car well in advance! With three weeks to before our last trip, we found our choices limited to a very small vehicle (too small for us) or very large (too expensive). Things like car rental happen on a much smaller scale in SA than the US - no vast parking lot full of vehicles, etc,... So don't expect to walk in and just pick up a car. Also many smaller (and even medium sized) towns will not have rental car franchises - makes dropping the car off at such places a non-option. You'll pay a premium to get a vehicle with unlimited miles free. Also you'll want to check into decent insurance for the vehicle and its contents particularly for theft, which can be quite a problem in SA.

When: Depends on where you go although the climate is generally very moderate. When locals say "freezing" it can mean that the outside temp is 45F! Generally the southern hemisphere summer (Dec-March) will be best. The only exceptions are if you plan to spend a lot of time in the Northern Cape (imagine spending summer in Arizona) or the more tropical parts of the country (Limpopo and parts of Mpumulanga).

For Cape Town and the Western Cape, you'll want to be there in the southern hemisphere summer. Summers are spectacular there - warm, dry and generally sunny - and will allow you to enjoy the beaches, wine farms, and outdoors. Winters are drab and rainy in the Western Cape. That said, I have walked around in shorts and a T-shirt there in June. Johannesburg and Gauteng are at a high enough altitude that they are pleasant (and green) in summer. Winters there can be chilly and all the vegetation is all brown.

Finally, if you go, you have to spend a decent chunk of time in Cape Town and its environs. The setting is just stunning and it usually shows up in lists of the most beautiful cities in the world. There are tons of things to do - beaches, biking, climb the mountain, hikes, wine tasting, important historical sights. The city has a functioning and vibrant downtown with many restaurants and so forth.

You'll definitely need a car. Most of the brand-name car rental companies have branches there but they're quite expensive. If you hunt around you'll find some smaller companies (off-airport) that have better rates. Not to scare you off but car break-ins are a problem in many areas -- have at look at the forums on climb.co.za.

Camping is an option in some of the more remote locations but security is an issue if you're close to a populated area.

Spring and fall are indeed the best times for climbing. The area round Cape Town gets lots of rain in winter, the rest of the country is a summer rainfall area.

Cool thanks for all of the info. It pretty much falls inline with what I expected (no huge car rental places, security issues, way too many things to do and places to go, not as cheap as it was last decade).

Great tip on car rental, that's something that is hard to predict (at least for me).

Hostels look reasonably priced... anyone have experience renting apartments on a weekly rate in Capetown? Probably too much of a hassle unless you're there for a month or longer.

I obviously haven't done any research, but I have a while. It seems like having Capetown as a base for a few weeks makes sense, renting a car for a chunk of our time there so that we can drive around for the climbing and whatnot. Then bus or train or fly to Johannesburg and check out the Kruger Park and the sport climbing area that is up there.

More expensive than the places I usually travel, but it looks to be worth it! Thinking March 2013... wow that seems like a long way off.

I love the guest houses in SA - they are like B&Bs here, and are a much more standard type of accommodation than hotels. The breakfasts you get are so huge and hearty that i rarely ever bothered to eat lunch. Never did look in to hostels, so no ideas there.

Almost every beach/park/guest house will have grills for a braai - south african bbq. It is something of an art form there, and you can save on eating out by picking up some food to grill.

Cape Town to Joburg is far enough that you'll want to fly for sure.

The only place I ever camped in SA was at the climbing area at watervall boven in mpumulanga. Think KOA camping - not free, but nice tent sites, fire pits, etc. I never really was anywhere in SA that I would have felt very comfortable camping - maybe in some remote parts of the Drakensburgs but that is about it.

Waterval Boven is amazing and not to be missed! Its mostly sport on excellent stone, but theres some great trad as well, especially "Sorcery" near the falls. Gustav, the owner of the climbers lodge in town is great and the small town friendly and safe. Heres a link to Gustavs website: rocrope.com/home.html
Kruger is only a couple hour drive away.

Heres a pic Gustav took of us on a route near the falls.

Andrew Gram wrote:I love the guest houses in SA - they are like B&Bs here, and are a much more standard type of accommodation than hotels. The breakfasts you get are so huge and hearty that i rarely ever bothered to eat lunch. Never did look in to hostels, so no ideas there.

It's funny that 20 years ago there were few guest houses in SA. Now there are tons and hardly any of the standard small town hotels (typically called the "Royal Hotel" or the "Grand Hotel") left. Guest houses are the best mid-range deal for accommodation (I remember now that I have used these a few times while on the road). They are a bit like B+Bs in the US but usually without all the frilly decor. And yes, the breakfasts can be vast, reaching colossal proportions in rural areas. In one small Free State town I was served three types of sausage along with the eggs and bacon.

Andrew Gram wrote:Almost every beach/park/guest house will have grills for a braai - south african bbq. It is something of an art form there, and you can save on eating out by picking up some food to grill.

Yep, braaiing is a national institution and you'll never be too far from the appropriate equipment and food. Biltong (dried meat) is another staple.

Andrew Gram wrote:Cape Town to Joburg is far enough that you'll want to fly for sure.

The straight shot is a day and a half drive, which does not sound too bad except that most of the interesting scenery occurs within a few hours of Cape Town. There will be no climbing opportunities along most of this trip. If you drive along the coast to Port Elizabeth and then up to Joburg, the scenery is generally nice (and great in parts) and you'll pass some climbing spots. You'll need at least one or two more days for this and you'd want a car.

Andrew Gram wrote:The only place I ever camped in SA was at the climbing area at watervall boven in mpumulanga. Think KOA camping - not free, but nice tent sites, fire pits, etc. I never really was anywhere in SA that I would have felt very comfortable camping - maybe in some remote parts of the Drakensburgs but that is about it.

I've only camped while along hiking trails in SA. These are remote and usually security is not an issue. My relatives in SA have car camped but this is done at caravan parks and other camping resorts. Such places are subdued (and often more pleasant) versions of KOAs in the US. If you (OP) are familiar with dispersed National Forest/BLM style camping in the US, then there is essentially nothing like that in SA. The setup and administration of public lands and general security issues prevent this.
Also if you (OP) are interested in doing some overnight hiking, be aware that it's a lot different from the US. Mostly one hikes hut-to-hut along a route decided by the authorities. That is you start at A, go to B , then C, etc,... versus starting at B, going to D, changing your mind and then going to A. You need a permit to stay overnight in the huts and generally tent camping is not allowed. Sounds restrictive but it's not too bad and many of these trails traverse some nice landscapes.