How do i stop getting my nuts stuck ... but seriously folks

I went up to Devils Lake this weekend and it was my first time setting top rope anchors by myself. I mostly ran webbing around trees or threaded some of the large boulders there. However, i used some of my BD stoppers in a crack for one setup and I couldn't get one out. I tried wiggling it around and i tried pulling it around with my nut removal tool but i had no luck. I was trying to take it on the same path i brought it in but i couldn't do it. In the end, it's only 10 bucks, so i'll deal with it but i just felt like a moron leaving gear behind like that. I didn't use any stoppers the rest of the day and used hexes. Is there any secret or trick to getting them out (choosing placements that are easier to clean?) or is losing stoppers just part of life?

On a related note... Anyone who wants a free #10 BD stopper, there is one sticking out of a crack on the West Bluff, near the Frigate.

The same way you put it in. And the judicious use of a nut tool and maybe a bit of wrist action. The best way to learn about your nuts (and gear in general) is to play with them on the ground, slotting them into different cracks, weighting them and then extracting them. When I'm hanging out at a crag top roping, especially when I haven't been leading a lot, I will build gear anchors close to the ground and even do hanging belays off of them just to improve my skills.

Don't place them in tight keyhole placements like that. If it was loose (not jammed tight), but you couldn't get it out, it's probably just too much of a puzzle. A simple constriction is all you need for a bomber placement.

You have to talk nicely to the placement. It needs coaxing.

I try to use some 2 nut tool trickery and envision how it came in to be fixed -- be the nut;
try also the sling to harness hip anti-thrust to try and torque it loose;
or get a beater and just try and pound on it.

When I get one really stuck, I get the nut tool positioned just right to push it loose then lean back and give it a really good kick with my toe or heel. If there are any heavy rocks around you can use those as an improvised hammer also.

Last week I extracted a nut on the first pitch of Chapel Pond. It had been wedged into a pod like constriction behind an irregular crack with the wire coming out at an angle so that any pull on it would torque it tight and there was no way to get behind it with a nut tool. I ended up sliding a pocket knife blade underneath to wiggle it free.

Nathan Stokes wrote:The same way you put it in. And the judicious use of a nut tool and maybe a bit of wrist action. The best way to learn about your nuts ... is to play with them on the ground, slotting them into different cracks, weighting them and then extracting them.

still laughing...

I have found getting a nut tool like the Metolius one that has a massive handle you can hammer on it ideal for removing stuck nuts. Flexible tools like the BD one are not as good. Use a large cam to tap on the nut tool to finesse the nut out.

these are all good tips. Practice will be the best teacher. But If I have that doesn't move in any direction. What I do is try to push the wire through and pull from the side I placed it. I've had good luck with this, even after a few tries and no movement to the nut just plopping right out. the other thing I do is the same but Place a cam above the nut placement, attach my tool to the wire or nut directly then run my keeper cord from my tool through the biner of the higher placed cam and pull leverage. make sure to look away when do this as your putting alot of force on things.

Grab a rock and hammer the nut tool so you push the nut back the same direction it went in. If the nut is fixed mid route have your second grab a small palm sized rock and drop it in his chalk bag. Just DON'T DROP IT!!!!

Have you considered taking a toprope anchor course from Jim Ebert? I hear he's in your area, and I'm sure he knows a thing or two about removing stuck gear from his patented 4-point nut anchors.

mountainproject.com/v/prett…

*edit to add, I just realized it's not at all obvious I'm being completely sarcastic until you've read the Jim Ebert thread.

I think it's also worth noting that both the nut and surround rock expand ever so slightly during the heat of the day (thermal expansion). Especially in some of the full sun locations at DL. Temperature swings can be 25+ degrees (way more with direct sun) from the time you place the nut to when you're trying to extract it. This can make a well placed nut to become an impossible-to-remove nut. Head back out the following morning after things have cooled a bit and it might come easier.

Stick to cams and you won't have this problem!

Abram Herman wrote:Have you considered taking a toprope anchor course from Jim Ebert? I hear he's in your area, and I'm sure he knows a thing or two about removing stuck gear from his patented 4-point nut anchors. mountainproject.com/v/prett…

+1

But really don't trust that joker. Well, trust him but don't take him too seriously. I 2nd the hammer method. Get yourself a nut tool and a fist sized rock and hammer it out if it won't come out by hand. And if you're setting TR's at the Lake use cams or if you don't have the cash use hexes or tri-cams. Avoid using stoppers if you can- it's just a pain in the ass getting them out.

Topher42 wrote:these are all good tips. Practice will be the best teacher.

Abram Herman wrote:Have you considered taking a toprope anchor course

I second both of these ideas. When it comes to placing gear practice is best and there is much that should be said for someone looking over your shoulder checking that you are making good decisions.

As far as setting I personally love hexes because they are more easily removed and are bomber. Nuts are the same without the easily removal in some cases. That being said I set the hell out of a nut no matter if I'm nervous about a move or if a toprope anchor that nobody get to see.

I just realized it's not at all obvious I was being completely sarcastic unless you've read the Jim Ebert thread. But just fyi, I was kidding.
Although if you're just starting out and don't have anyone to mentor you an anchor course could be helpful.

(old guy here)...doesn't anyone carry a rock hammer anymore for smacking nuts out of cracks with ease? (Jim Ebert class grad')

Checked out the ebert guy... that is some messed up stuff.

One of the requirements for taking his course is that you need to have your "heart and soul" into it and "insatiable desire"?

What if only my soul is into it? Will my top rope fail? If my desire is satiated can i stop using a harness when i climb?

I once rigged a simple pulley to extract a piece of booty gear at red rocks. I put a piece up high ran a double length runner attached to the stuck piece up to the high piece then down to my harness. I then began taking falls on it. Yanked out after a while.