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A question for women who climb harder than their boyfriends/husbands

Rob Gordon · · Hollywood, CA · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 115
Yarp wrote:Please disregard most of what has been written here and spread the word among the other half that not all of us with a penis use it for making every decision in our lives.
I've also learned one thing many times over in my life the hard way: when someone tells you outright what they don't do or what kind of person they aren't, you are pretty safe to assume that that is exactly what they do/who they are.

So Sawtooth you probably should not camp with Yarp.
Derek Schroeder · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 5
Rob Gordon wrote: I've also learned one thing many times over in my life the hard way: when someone tells you outright what they don't do or what kind of person they aren't, you are pretty safe to assume that that is exactly what they do/who they are. So Sawtooth you probably should not camp with Yarp.
BOOSH
sawtoothski · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 0

While the topic may have taken a slight turn, the opinions expressed had their valid points, misogynistic or otherwise. Well, with the exception of geographically categorizing women as being naive versus skeptical.

I received a lot of PMs from those who wished to also remain anonymous. Thanks for the taking the time to writing your thoughts and how you handle such private matters. The questions that were posed to me still require thought, and more appropriately, a discussion with my partner. Alpinista and CP, thanks for putting me in touch with your friends and I will definitely contact you if I ever make it that far west and north!

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

tough social question for sure. Guess alot of guys who climb better than their girlfriends are satisfied if she just continues to belay and not have aspirations for higher goals. But when it's reversed, I guess it could cause issues. I'd love to find a girl who climbs harder than I do, as I need the push. But when I would reach that high point along the way someday where I'm satisfied with the pleasures of my climbing limits, she may want to push on to harder stuff that leaves my comfort level. Hard to say how I would feel if she went off to climb with another guy, as I'm sure many guys ARE on the hunt for a female climbing partner who will go the distance with them.

It's not like having a girl who bowls 220 games while you can barely keep it over 110 each time at the lanes. Just not the same quality of competition or 'threat level' of someone leaving you for a better athlete.

Alicia Sokolowski · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 1,781
Woodchuck ATC wrote:It's not like having a girl who bowls 220 games while you can barely keep it over 110 each time at the lanes. Just not the same quality of competition or 'threat level' of someone leaving you for a better athlete.
You sure about that?

This guy is pretty sure he could have your girlfriend anytime
Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Yarp wrote:A woman posts an articulate question asking for relationship advice and it ends up being a discussion between a bunch of dorks about who can come up with a more misogynistic way of proclaiming to the world that they and all other males they know are truly the swine that woman fear us to be. Thanks for living up to the stereotype. Sawtooth...good luck with your issue. Please disregard most of what has been written here and spread the word among the other half that not all of us with a penis use it for making every decision in our lives.
Wow. I'm not sure if this was intended to be self-emasculating or is just ignorant.

Here's the issue from my perspective. People often ask for the advice they want to hear to substantiate what they want to do. The opposite can be true as well but IMHO not so much.

sawtoothski asked for responses from ladies because she wanted to understand the issue from her perspective. If she wanted to know what was going on with her boyfriend and have a greater insight into what's he's feeling then she would have asked the guys. But she didn't. I think that's telling.

I think the men have chimed in well enough to give the male perspective. If you want to disagree with it fine, but you would be ignoring the likelihood that, collectively, they'll provide a much more accurate POV [edit: about the boyfriend's thoughts] than the women.

If you really want to have a meaningful relationship with your boyfriend, you wouldn't be spending entire weekends away from him. The issue isn't that you climb harder, it's that you're not around, climbing with a bunch of other dudes who are probably fit, shirtless and maybe interested in hitting you up, especially since they don't see you with a significant other. Some couples can maintain an arm's length relationship but most, as you probably already know, cannot. While the truth may be that you're faithful and interested, etc., appearances do matter. The perception he's seeing is that you're far more interested in the climbing than him.
Cynthia Adams · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 0

And there are not guys who would rather spend their weekends climbing than with their girlfriend's?

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Cynthia Adams wrote:And there are not guys who would rather spend their weekends climbing than with their girlfriend's?
Absolutely. Probably lots of them. I think we'd both agree about how much that tells you about how committed he is.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Cynthia Adams wrote:And there are not guys who would rather spend their weekends climbing than with their girlfriend's?
That might have been a rhetorical question... but I'll give it a shot. My answer is not as simple as yes or no:
If she is not going to climb, I guess it leaves me with that choice to be made. It sure would be easier if she were a climber.
BrianH Pedaler · · Santa Fe NM · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 50
Phil Lauffen wrote:I may be going out on a limb here, but guys in general seem to only have female friends that they are at least mildly sexually interested in. I think this is hard for girls to understand, but common sense to guys...? [...]
Absolutely. In the Land of Men's Brains there are no bright lines, only gray areas...

I think many men are perfectly comfortable thinking of platonic partners in ... uh ... other equally active situations. 999 times out of a 1000 nothing comes of it. But the thought is there. That may be one reason guys have more trouble knowing that their girlfriend is climbing with other guys.

Also I've heard of girlfriends/wives who come along and read or hike or whatever. I think it would take a very Enlightened male (maybe even a SNAG) to feel comfortable doing this on a long term basis.
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280
Alicia Sokolowski wrote: You sure about that?
OMG,,,I forgot about that 'dude'. Slick with women on the lanes, yes he is.
Tommey-James · · Boulder,Colorado · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 10

Absolutely. In the Land of Men's Brains there are no bright lines, only gray areas...

That is perfectly said

Shino · · nomadic · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 625
BrianH wrote:I think it would take a very Enlightened male (maybe even a SNAG) to feel comfortable doing this on a long term basis.
Not all men are pigs. I'd say only 75% of my partners are and would wholeheartedly agree. I didn't say they were not a fan of seeing naked women. Unless they're cruxing out and seeing their healthy ankles flash before their eyes, their heads are in the gutter more often than not. Sure, y'all are hardwired pervs. We get it. Women know that men are visually driven even in their platonic endeavors. No argument there. What I'm trying to say is that you can be a loyal boyfriend, a pig and *still* have a great female climbing partner with no ulterior motive to want to bang the living shit out of her after a jolly, good summit.

It takes a pretty special kind of guy to find their partner even remotely attractive after handing her a baby wipe while she takes a crap off the side of a portaledge. Call me old fashioned, but I think most women wait until a year into their relationship before pulling that off without a second thought.

My climbing partner and I talked about this over the weekend (hi Tyler! <- definite pig)
I asked him why he likes climbing with girls. He said he's done the online partner call thing and finds that he doesn't get along with a lot of the guys that he climbs with. The women, on the other hand, aren't competitive, they're more sensitive, easy to talk to and we giggle and listen way more than we scoff and spray. It doesn't mean we get special treatment. Nor does it mean things "get complicated". He has a girlfriend. Tall. Skinny. Smart. Spectacular rack. Dimples. Does his wish they shared an unrequited love for climbing? No, not really. They share a lot of stuff and the time they spend together is cherished and appreciated.

I think my partners would agree that there are a lot of pros to partnering with a woman whom they don't find sexually interesting, not even in the mildest sense. Their real partners also tend to be less distrusting and more relieved that the father of their children has a partner, that they've met, that is safe and will, without fail, return their husbands back to their home with ten fingers and ten toes.

TL;DR I guess there are a lot of Enlightened male climbers in California.
Cynthia Adams · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 0

Well, and more nicely said than what I was thinking!

jamie lynn miller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 0

Hi there,

I'm Jamie Lynn, and my friend Chris Kalous and I host a climbing podcast called Off Belay...everything climbing without leaving the ground. It's free, online at: offbelaypodcast.com or downloadable on Itunes.

We discuss oh so many issues related to the climbing lifestyle, and we recently our ""Relationship" episode.

Personally, I feel it's a fundamental challenge to have a partner who is less motivated/passionate/into climbing. There's the quality time spent together, the shared zest for the lifestyle, the mental and physical warm fuzzies we all feel through climbing; I think it'd be hard to date someone who wasn't in the loop. And as a woman, I feel there are added social pressures that affect our relationships, which men don't necessarily face.

It's kind of caveman-esque, but I think it's true: society, even our climbing culture, still thinks it's natural/normal for a man to go off and do his outdoor thing, have big adventures, be passionate about something that takes them away from his woman. At some really fundamental level, men are still expected to be independent, self-reliant and autonomous in this way.

When women are faced with the same desires - i.e. to climb a lot, or to climb hard, and to spend that time that takes them away from their partners on a regular basis, it seems to become more problematic. I think most men get kind of resentful, kind of suspicious and feel kind of neglected.

I've overheard many "I'm scared to break up because I don't want to lose my climbing partner" conversations between women over the years; I don't think men have these conversations nearly as often. Currently, I'm not in a climbing relationship, and I struggle with losing climbing partners to new boyfriends, or potential new climbing partners to suspicious girlfriends.

I'd like to think this disparity can be resolved and certainly, there are all sorts of variations on the relationship theme; but nonetheless, the issues are there and there are a lot of them to sift through.

Check out the podcast. I think you'll dig the discourse. Again, Off Belay, at: offbelaypodcast.com. Love to hear from you!

Superclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 1,310
Alicia Sokolowski wrote: You sure about that?
"That creep can roll man."
BrianH Pedaler · · Santa Fe NM · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 50

alpinista83 I agree with everything you say. I very strongly agree with your partner who prefers to climb with women. It is less competitive, more light hearted and just plain fun. In general. I've had partners of both genders who just didn't work out.

Climbing relationships are hard!

I'm not going to get into the vastly different ways men and women view sexuality, attraction, relationships and what not.

But my comment you quoted was not meant about guys who you're climbing with. Reading over it, I can see how I didn't write that sentence very well. I was talking about the suggestion that the less gung-ho boyfriend tag along to hike, or read or whatever while his girlfriend was off climbing with a compatible climbing partner.

I posit that most (not all) guys would have a difficult time in this scenario. I don' think it necessarily makes them "pigs", it may just mean that their ego is a little overdeveloped, or that they still hew very strongly to traditional notions of gender roles; something we all seem to do to a greater or lesser extent.

In any event, all successful partnerships, whether platonic or sexual, are a strange and wonderful alchemy. I think it's pretty close to impossible to come up with hard and fast, "either/or" rules about how it should work.

To the OP, I hope this is not hijacking your thread and excellent question, that is not my intent.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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