TP and shit everywhere at the Butterfly wall

Would love to know who is shitting everywhere within 10 feet of the trail and close to the belays at the bottom of the routes and leaving shit and toilet paper uncovered so it can blow all over the place? Really appreciate you thoughtfulness. EFR

Idiots!

Ugh!! Sorry to hear that!

DUDE!!! BLOWS! I hate it when people don't take an extra 30 or 40 seconds to think about the others who may be using this area too.

Pretty sad that climbers today don't take the time to learn proper back country etiquette.

Some people should stay in the gym.

DAMN! At the Butterfly wall?! One would think that if you are climbing there, you have been climbing for a while and should know how to shit in the outdoors. Very sad!

I feel climbing gyms owe it to the climbing community to teach proper shit etiquette. Gyms attract people that know little to nothing about the outdoors. Then if the people enjoy the climbing they start going climbing outside, with no idea how to treat nature and our crags.

I always thought it was standard practice to blame the guide book authors for over crowding and other such issues. Just kidding Eric.

Though it could be, maybe should be something that is covered in guide books.

There were several threads along these same lines last summer. I made a joke of saying that I was going to post up in all of the newbe post "learn to shit in the woods". As I recall it was considered a necessary skill to learn, back when I first started climbing in the mid 80"s.

I know the book "How to Shit in the Woods" is still out there. Maybe it would be good for some influential climber to bring this to the attention of local retailers.

It might also be worth putting something here on MP. Perhaps if the info were out there, coming from some of the better more experienced climbers maybe people would pay attention. Maybe, it's worth a try at least.

I think someone said on a similar thread about trash and other thoughtless abuse at Enchanted Tower (in NM): 'We have met the enemy and he is ourselves.'

Tim McCabe wrote: Though it could be, maybe should be something that is covered in guide books.

Actually, Eric did cover it in his guide book Squeezing the Lemmon 2. Under the section "Dispose of Human Waste Properly: Use toilets whenever possible. If toilets are not availible, dig a 'cat hole' at least six inches deep and 200 feet from any water, trails, campsites, or the base of climbs. Always pack out toilet paper. On big wall routes, use a 'poop tube'".

Red wrote:I feel climbing gyms owe it to the climbing community to teach proper shit etiquette. Gyms attract people that know little to nothing about the outdoors. Then if the people enjoy the climbing they start going climbing outside, with no idea how to treat nature and our crags.

+1. So true.

I believe Rocks and Ropes actually has (or used to have) a few signs up teaching about outdoor etiquette including not going to the bathroom at the base of climbs...

emmet wrote: Actually, Eric did cover it in his guide book Squeezing the Lemmon 2. Under the section "Dispose of Human Waste Properly: Use toilets whenever possible. If toilets are not availible, dig a 'cat hole' at least six inches deep and 200 feet from any water, trails, campsites, or the base of climbs. Always pack out toilet paper. On big wall routes, use a 'poop tube'".

Good to hear, I only have the 1st edition of that one.

You have a first edition Tim! Most folks no longer have a complete book because they have left the brown stained pages in cat holes on Mt. Lemmon! Heck some folks put the whole thing in a cat hole at the end of the first week!

Yep mine is in really good shape as I never did use it much. My wife always preferred the Stronghold so we didn't use it much. I did do a fair bit up there with a co worker but we always used his book. The bindings weren't very good (typical of lots of guides) so his started falling apart right away. As I recall he used wire to rebind it.

Good to hear that you have included this kind of info in the new edition. I have only seen it at Summit Hut spiral binding as I recall.

As Red pointed out it's surprising that someone got that far off of the road and doesn't know better. Then again it may not be a matter of knowledge so much as a matter of inconsideration.

I had to look it up to see whats there looks like a pretty stout area. So much for the theory that this shit only happens when there are a lot of moderates available.

youtube.com/watch?v=zwmwxkD…

No bushllit please!

1Eric Rhicard wrote:You have a first edition Tim! Most folks no longer have a complete book because they have left the brown stained pages in cat holes on Mt. Lemmon! Heck some folks put the whole thing in a cat hole at the end of the first week!

LOL Eric!

Regarding the paper, consider burning it or packing it out. TP seems to surface and blow around everywhere.

Geir wrote: LOL Eric! Regarding the paper, consider burning it or packing it out. TP seems to surface and blow around everywhere.

You might want to reconsider suggesting that people light up a match to burn such light-weight material in areas that are quite often very tinder dry. Packing it out is a better and pretty much only option in my view.

Like you said, it "blow[s] around everywhere," and I'd add, potentially even moreso when heated by fire.

Just my personal view of course.

Fred

Eric - I had always heard that Butterfly wall was the shit.

Seriously, a friendly reminder to be extremely careful with fire over the next 30-90 days. Drought conditions exist throughout much of Texas, Oklahoma, southern and eastern New Mexico and S.E. Arizona with some stations showing record levels of fuel dryness. It would not take much for a careless person to destroy a climbing area such as what might have happened on the Lincoln National Forest six weeks ago.

I always use my socks, they don't blow around.
I would suggest, as I have in the past, everyone who knows better keep nitrile gloves on hand so if and when you see someone shitting that close to the crag you can huck their own feces at them.

There is toilet paper scattered about The Towers area of Munchkinland as well. Very disappointing.