To the Bowl-cut dude and crew on the 1st flatiron the afternoon of Memorial Day:

Yarp wrote: Do you scream "yer gonna die" at the trapeze artist when you go to the circus? What about all those crazy fuckers at the zoo that feed and handle the big cats? Do you stop in the middle of the street and yell at construction workers to tie their ladder off because OSHA says they have to? Fire fighters? Miners? Pigs? The waitress down at your local watering hole for eating those disgusting pickle things in the jar EVERY DAY? She is SO gonna die young from eating those. How's about we all just go about sweeping our own doorsteps, Mmmkay?

Said better than I could have

Scott McMahon wrote:..to say that it's ok cuz it weeds out the gene pool is sick.

So Darwin was a sick man? I always thought he was incredibly intelligent, possibly even a genius. Do you believe in Natural Selection?

matt davies wrote:I commend your umbrage at the posts rallying around a Darwinistic outcome, we have a responsibility to look out for our fellow dumbasses.

I strongly disagree that we have a "responsibility" to protect "dumbasses." I do commend someone that tries to help a dumbass out of a dangerous situation, but only if said dumbass wants to be helped. Because at least the dumbass that wants to be helped is showing a small desire to preserve his life. The dumbass that won't accept help has no sense of self-preservation and shouldn't be polluting the gene pool, IMO.

Stupid people breed stupid people.

Do you believe in Natural Selection?

--Marc

Yarp wrote:meow, meow, meow

Straw man argument.

-sp wrote: Straw man argument.

Could you please explain how my argument is a "straw man argument"? Everything I posted is on topic and directly relates to the statements put forth by the OP and others defending him. Nothing I wrote does or was intended to distract anyone from the issue at hand.

Or maybe you don't even know what that term means and you are just posting it because it's something cute you saw posted over at Summitpile.com?

Yarp wrote:Everything I posted is on topic and directly relates to the statements put forth by the OP and others defending him.

Except for the "meow, meow, meow.." :-)

I'm guessing -SP is just messing with you, though I could be wrong.

-Marc

climbing with a rope is for pussies

Not the way I would put it but I actually agree with most of Yarp's sentiment. If you don't wanna see stupid stuff on the rock stay away from the 1st Flatiron on any given day, especially after CU starts classes. Definitely don't stand under them.

The OP stated he knows the guy so walk up to him up in Fort Collins face to face instead of spraying on a web forum. If you thought you were witnessing a situation where less knowledgeable people were being led into danger, say your peace and move on but that does not sound like the case here, sounds like they were all in on it.

ssimonson09 wrote: Didn't say it couldn't be done, just saying that by today's standards what they were doing was pretty stupid. People also used to drive cars with no seat-belts, crumple zones, or airbags.

I own an '81 FJ40 Landcruiser, I don't drive it much but when I do I pollute like holy hell as well as your list above.

Did the five-fingers look like they were working ok for the slab? I've been curious how they would work out for climbing.

if you genuinely felt like helping these climbers, state your concerns and move on. you cant force people to take your advice, and to post this kind of rant looks self serving. once you made it personal with the cooments on their appearance, it changed from helpful to sounding off with righteous indignation, compensating for a wounded ego that was offended because they didnt take your advice rather than genuine concern for their well being or the manner in which they are representing the so called climbing community.

sfotex wrote:Did the five-fingers look like they were working ok for the slab? I've been curious how they would work out for climbing.

They work great for climbing! You look like just as big a yuppy douche on slabs with five fingers as you do anywhere else.

Yarp wrote:Could you please explain how my argument is a "straw man argument"? Everything I posted is on topic and directly relates to the statements put forth by the OP and others defending him. Nothing I wrote does or was intended to distract anyone from the issue at hand.

You equated trained professionals who work in hazardous jobs to unskilled “climbers” acting in a way where they could harm themselves. Argument by distortion of example is the absolute essence of the phrase.

So, hyperbolic tone aside, let me ask you this - what would you do if you were out for a hike and you saw a dog walking along the edge of a partially frozen pond? Would you just walk on by or would you give it a shout and see if you could get it to come in? Now what if it was a 6-yo kid? Or better yet a 16-yo?

Are you really telling me you’d just say “fuck –off, you’re an idiot and deserve to drown?” I simply refuse to believe anyone could be so callous and uncaring AND at the same time look down on me for trying to help.

-sp wrote: You equated trained professionals who work in hazardous jobs to unskilled “climbers” acting in a way where they could harm themselves. Argument by distortion of example is the absolute essence of the phrase. So, hyperbolic tone aside, let me ask you this - what would you do if you were out for a hike and you saw a dog walking along the edge of a partially frozen pond? Would you just walk on by or would you give it a shout and see if you could get it to come in? Now what if it was a 6-yo kid? Or better yet a 16-yo? Are you really telling me you’d just say “fuck –off, you’re an idiot and deserve to drown?” I simply refuse to believe anyone could be so callous and uncaring AND at the same time look down on me for trying to help.

This sounds like a slippery slope argument to me.

sfotex wrote: This sounds like a slippery slope argument to me.

Again with you and your slab climbing. Look, stop hand-foot matching on the teensy nubbins, stand up straight on your feet, and start climbing the real climbs and making your arguments like a real man, a man who wears real footwear.

-sp wrote: You equated trained professionals who work in hazardous jobs to unskilled “climbers” acting in a way where they could harm themselves. Argument by distortion of example is the absolute essence of the phrase. So, hyperbolic tone aside, let me ask you this - what would you do if you were out for a hike and you saw a dog walking along the edge of a partially frozen pond? Would you just walk on by or would you give it a shout and see if you could get it to come in? Now what if it was a 6-yo kid? Or better yet a 16-yo? Are you really telling me you’d just say “fuck –off, you’re an idiot and deserve to drown?” I simply refuse to believe anyone could be so callous and uncaring AND at the same time look down on me for trying to help.

First of all you don't know if they were "unskilled" climbers. Might have been V13 pebble wrestlers for all we know.

Secondly, if you think that every carpenter or window washer out there has gone through some extensive safety training program in order to work in that profession then you are truly a moron.

As to your question about my dog...if he is out hiking with me he is on leash and wouldn't be anywhere near a frozen pond unless I am. If a 6yo child were walking on the pond I "might" ask him where his parents are and notify his parents that their kid is about to drown IF they were unaware. If he was a teenager then I would mind my own business. Just like you should. If my argument is a straw man argument then please explain how yours is not?

If someone is in IMMEDIATE danger of DEATH I would speak up if only to save myself from having to hear that sound a body makes when hitting the ground but If they didn't wanna hear it I'd quietly go on my way. I probably wouldn't come home and immediately post on the internet how much smarter I am than them.

tharlow wrote:if you genuinely felt like helping these climbers, state your concerns and move on. you cant force people to take your advice, and to post this kind of rant looks self serving. once you made it personal with the cooments on their appearance, it changed from helpful to sounding off with righteous indignation, compensating for a wounded ego that was offended because they didnt take your advice rather than genuine concern for their well being or the manner in which they are representing the so called climbing community.

Ouch, that's a little harsh eh? I only called the dude Mr. Bowl-cut because it's honestly the only distinguished feature I could remember about anyone in the group. Maybe I could have called him Mr. Red Shirt or something that would have been less offensive to other people who rock the bowl-cut? And honestly, I could care less at this point if the guy takes my advice, I figured if he didn't listen then maybe there's a chance him or one of his friends is on Mountain Project and would see the post.

I'm not trying to be the safety police here, I thought I made that clear in my original post when I said that "I make no claims to being any kind of professional or "qualified professional" in anything." All I'm saying is maybe he should reconsider what he and his friends were doing before getting in way over their heads.

ssimonson09 wrote:And honestly, I could care less at this point if the guy takes my advice, I figured if he didn't listen then maybe there's a chance him or one of his friends is on Mountain Project and would see the post.

It's you "couldn't care less".

Yarp, you started off with the sarcasm and quickly deteriorated.

-Yep, the 80% is made up but I think everyone gets my point.

-Climbing is actually pretty safe but Bowl Cut was practicing what sounded like some pretty un-safe techniques. I wasn't there, so couldn't give an opinion if he was actually unsafe or not. It's very possible to solo safely.

-My point is that the majority of people don't climb and that they think climbing is dangerous because dumb-asses like Bowl Cut get hurt. Shit, hikers, scrambling up some rocks eat shit and the next day in the paper "Climber eats shit!". We had a local crag shut down cause dumb ass kids were getting drunk and falling off and the po'dunk country board labeled them as climbers.

-Bowl Cut might see this, embarrassment is a powerful motivator.

-Nah, I don't yell at trapeze artists but if I was a trapeze artist and I saw one doing something stupid I would let them know.

Yarp wrote: ...Secondly, if you think that every carpenter or window washer out there has gone through some extensive safety training program in order to work in that profession then you are truly a moron.

Once again you've switched from examples where rigorous formal training is required to work in a professional capacity to one where it's not...to bolster your argument. At this point you really need to look up the the phrase "straw man fallacy". And when you do, please use something other than the Urban Dictionary.

I'm going to bow out at this point, the Bruins are on in about an hour and a half and I really need to sort out whether it's a Russian Imperial Stout or a Belgian for puck-drop. Please feel free to carry on without me however.

-sp wrote:I'm going to bow out at this point, the Bruins are on in about an hour and a half and I really need to sort out whether it's an Russian Imperial Stout or a Belgian for puck-drop. Please feel free to carry on without me however.

I vote for your argument based on beer choice alone, those are two of my favorite beer types.

Zeke wrote: I vote for your argument based on beer choice alone, those are two of my favorite beer types.

Decision made: northcoastbrewing.com/beer-…

-sp wrote: Once again you've switched from examples where rigorous formal training is required to work in a professional capacity to one where it's not...

Huh? This makes no sense what so ever. Are you sure you haven't started drinking all ready?