Overcoming entry barriers to mountaineering/alpinism?

MP Community,

I’m pretty much the antithesis of many climbers – I’m a former college fullback (5’11, 225lbs) from the south and I’m coming to climbing later in life (27). My family was poor growing up, so we couldn’t afford to come West to ski, etc. when I was a child and so I was never exposed to the mountains…until I moved to Montana for graduate school 2 years ago. Prior to moving out here, I had been introduced to bouldering in AR and loved it but was in a gnarly car accident in 2007 that severed my index and middle finger extensor tendons in half, and climbing sort of fell away from me.

When I moved to Montana, I was introduced to “real” mountains and I’ve begun to learn sport climbing from experienced friends, been ice climbing with an experienced friend once. I quickly became fascinated with the world of mountaineering/alpinism. Now that I’ve finished my master’s and have the time (and just a little extra $) to pursue this, I have to see if it’s for me or not. I have several questions, but my primary question for now is: what progression should I take to become proficient in the mountains and what is the best way (classes, other climbers, books, etc.) to learn with no prior experience?

I do have several experienced sport/big wall/ice/trad/alpine climbing friends and have let them all know at least once that I would be grateful to participate if they ever have a climb/ascent they’d be willing to take a novice on or would be willing to barter for tutoring sessions. I’ve been training harder since school is out and have been reading as much as possible so that it won’t be a waste of anyone’s time. I’ve saved and accumulated enough basic gear (rope, harness, quickdraws, slings, belay device, screwtop biners) so that I won’t abuse anyone else’s. Perhaps I should be more patient, but no one’s taken me up on that. I can understand that folks don’t want beginners holding them back. Is this the norm for mountaineers/alpinists and if so is my only other option to learn the necessary skills/techniques to be proficient and self-sufficient in the mountains is to pay for a course somewhere? Is there a certain etiquette I should follow so that it would be somewhat worthwhile for experienced climbers to take a newbie?

Any advice is appreciated.
Cheers,
Cotton

PS – I’ve been reading Freedom of the Hills and obviously need to compliment this learning by application.

I don't know you friends but I hav introduced many novices to climbing but alpine is way more committing than alpine and way more dangerous.become proficient at the crags and multipitch then ask about taking you out. I am sure he theyxwill take you out with out fear of being put in a life threatoning situation brought on by something stupid.

The only two things that I have to say are 1:) Obtain all of the personal gear that you need to stay alive. I would be fine bringing beginners on a lot of my trips if I felt confident that they won't die from lack of equipment. Be sure to have a headlamp and stay away from cotton if you want to go alpine. 2:) If you commit to a trip, DO NOT back out at the last minute.

The best way to get through the barriers to entry is to practice with experienced friends. I enjoy taking beginners on trips, but I know I will shy away immediately if the two conditions above aren't met.

I don't know your friends or your situation, but those are my biggest concerns when bringing beginners along.

The only two things that I have to say are 1:) Obtain all of the personal gear that you need to stay alive. I would be fine bringing beginners on a lot of my trips if I felt confident that they won't die from lack of equipment. Be sure to have a headlamp and stay away from cotton if you want to go alpine. 2:) If you commit to a trip, DO NOT back out at the last minute.

The best way to get through the barriers to entry is to practice with experienced friends. I enjoy taking beginners on trips, but I know I will shy away immediately if the two conditions above aren't met.

I don't know your friends or your situation, but those are my biggest concerns when bringing beginners along.

The only two things that I have to say are 1:) Obtain all of the personal gear that you need to stay alive. I would be fine bringing beginners on a lot of my trips if I felt confident that they won't die from lack of equipment. Be sure to have a headlamp and stay away from cotton if you want to go alpine. 2:) If you commit to a trip, DO NOT back out at the last minute.

The best way to get through the barriers to entry is to practice with experienced friends. I enjoy taking beginners on trips, but I know I will shy away immediately if the two conditions above aren't met.

I don't know your friends or your situation, but those are my biggest concerns when bringing beginners along.

First of all, just get out into the mountains on peak bagging trips and hikes that don't involve any real exposed climbing above 3rd class. You should be able to get friends to join you on those hikes more easily. That will get you used to the altitude and commitment to do long days in the mountains and you'll experience various weather conditions and get a good feel for the environment.

Then at lower elevations keep up with the pure rock climbing and the snow and ice skills. Since you live in Montana you have plenty of opportunities for that. Making some climbing friends is very important. If you have an aptitude for this stuff, your inexperience won't be the deciding factor in whether you get partners. What really cements climbing partnerships is compatibility, reliability, dedication, and plain just being a good friend to your partner.

Most basic rock, snow and ice climbing skills can be learned very quickly, sometimes in a single day. Mind you, this will get you up the easiest lines. It takes much longer to figure out all of the rest, but learning is part of the fun.

I 2nd Stitch's comments.

I've often observed that people who come to alpinism/mountaineering from a scrambling/hiking/camping background often are much better prepared for the reality of mountain routes than are those who's previous experience is primarily in rock climbing. I think that the technical skills, rope handling, placing pro, etc. are much easier and quicker to learn than other more nebulous mountain skills. Navigation, route, finding, trip planning, and overall "mountain sense" take longer to develop. Also, most mountain routes involve quite a lot of unroped scrambling, or simulclimbing. Moving quickly over moderate terrain is just as important (if not more-so) than being able to pull the crux moves.

So get into the mountains. Go scrambling. Do off-trail hikes, and overnight trips. This is also a good way to develop partnerships, since many people who have the mountaineering skills you want to learn will also be interested in nice scrambles. I've pretty much always gone scrambling with new partners before doing anything really committing.

Well, I cannot speak for your friends, but I personally would not take a beginner on an alpine trip if we were just a party of two... and a party of 3 tends to be slower...

So, I would only take a beginner with a party of three, if the climb is relatively simple.

I doubt too many people care about the gear as long as you have all your personal stuff (clothes, etc.). The reason I would not take a beginner is if something went wrong, he might not be able to get himself out which would put his life along with mine at risk.

For example, lets say you are half way up a fairly technical wall and the leader gets hurt. If the second cannot get the party down or go for help, then you would be in serious trouble.

So, I would want a second to at least be able to build a gear anchor, be able to escape a belay, and be able to get the two of us down if I were out of commission, or if that is not possible, to get himself down.

Now, these skill aren't too hard to obtain... getting comfortable placing gear is one of the biggest skills you would need, but that should be easy to come by. I'm not sure what options you have, but in Colorado, there are plenty of trad areas where you can go where if there were a problem it would be easy to get help, and hence most people are willing to take beginners along. Places like Eldo/Lumpy that are just outside of towns, have cell phone signals or have enough people around that you could always just scream for help are great for beginners.

So, I would recommend learning rock skills in a non-alpine environment while doing non-technical class 3 or 4 climbs in the mountains. When you get proficient with the gear, and you show to your friends that you are fit in the mountains, you should be able to find people to take you on alpine routes.

Hey Cotton,

One of the best ways I have found to become a proficient climber is to go on a climbing road trip! Even if solo, I have met many folks dirt bagging there way along, finding partners and just getting things done! Learning to climb on different types of rock will help you get accustomed to most styles of rock climbing, sport/trad, face/cracks, chimney/offwidths, friction slabs, bouldering, etc. Having done many month long trips and a half year long trip has only helped me in so many ways. I became very efficient in many styles of climbing and wanted to keep climbing all year round! I mostly prefer trad/alpine/ice. I also understand the importance of bouldering and sport climbing to help build strength, power and endurance along with learning proper body positioning, etc(though i rarely sport climb or boulder haha)! Ice and alpine will come with time and is not for everyone; due to heinous approaches, inability to ski in mountaineering boots, extreme temps and exposure in very remote area's, etc... I have not read other's posts, but your not an idiot and are well spoken! Common sense is not very common anymore, but just take advice as you will, and get out there and climb!!! There is plenty to do in the Wind Rivers and Tetons and I am sure Montanan has plenty as well! Take care, climb on Jon!

I'm in sort of the same situation as Cotton. I grew up in Kansas and was never exposed to the mountains until last summer when I worked in Yellowstone. If you would have told me at the start of the summer that I would climb the Middle Teton and do solo overnight trips in the mountains I would have told you you were crazy, but as soon as I started hiking in the mountains I was addicted.

I'm 27 as well so I'm getting a late start on all this, but the great thing about climbing is you can do it well into your 50's if you stay fit. I'm back in Kansas again this summer for the sole reason of getting geared up and reading as much as I can before I head back to the mountains. The money is crap out in Yellowstone but on your days off the mountains are your playground. I'll be heading back out there again next summer for good and getting into trad climbing, snow travel, alpinism, etc.

Having said all that I am surprised no one has mentioned other books that are good to read. I have nearly finished Freedom of the Hills but I'm also reading "Climbing Anchors (2nd Edition)" by John Long and "Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain" by Bruce Tremper. Climbing Anchors has cleared up a lot of questions I had about rigging anchors and Staying Alive is pure revelation to someone with no snow experience whatsoever. Simply put, don't set foot in the mountains in winter without having read books on avalanches. "Snow Sense" is next for me.

Anyway, I hope you can find someone to take you under their wing Cotton. I will have that same challenge next year when I try to find some partners. None of my friends here in Kansas are interested in learning with me unfortunately. Where at in Montana are you living? Who knows, maybe we could hook up for some adventures next year.

Thanks for the great responses, everyone.

Obtain all of the personal gear that you need to stay alive. I would be fine bringing beginners on a lot of my trips if I felt confident that they won't die from lack of equipment. Be sure to have a headlamp and stay away from cotton if you want to go alpine.
I've done a decent amount of research on gear and in terms of clothing, I have a couple Cap-3 top/bottom pairs, Arc'Teryx Gamma SK bibs, Patagonia hooded guide jacket, O.R. Alti Gloves, Patagonia R1 top/bottom for mid-layers, etc., etc. I have pretty good Black Diamond and Petzl headlamps. I do need to get some good boots but have to save some more $. Any suggestions for boots are welcomed! It's not in me to back out on committments either.

Mike -
Thanks for the heads up on the job! I agree that it might be a bit late this summer, but next spring I will look into both the Tetons and the Pac-NW. I wish I could afford a NOLS course and have heard terrific things about them, but with the amount of gear I still have to obtain, I can't realistically consider NOLS an option for the time being.

Stich/Oreid -
Usually about twice a week I strap on a 50lb. pack and do a 3-4 mile/3000-4000ft (depending on how much time I have) ascent as fast as I can. That takes me 75-100 minutes depending on distance and conditions (it is on half-decent trail, though). Other days, I'm sport climbing/bouldering and trail running. That's encouraging to hear about your observations on those who come to mountaineering. I've done several multi-day backpacking trips averaging 13-17 miles/day over 4-7 days so hopefully that will come in handy too.

Chris, I'm in Bozeman. I don't know if you can message on MP or not, but I'm definitely interested to hear more about your plans.

Everyone else, thanks very much for the words of encouragement and great advice.

Cotton,
You are are in a great position, motivated and available!
Bozeman is obviously an awesome area to climb rocks and mountains.
I did some checking on google earth and Ross Peak, near Bridger Bowl, sounds like a fun peak you could bag with your current skill set. With many other similar peaks nearby. I agree with others, getting used to being in alpine environment and moving quickly is key to alpine climbing. Athletic people usually learn climbing moves quickly enough.
Keep us updated on your progress!

I would like to 3rd Stitch's comments, specifically about starting out peak bagging via class 3 routes.

Alpine climbing requires MANY skill sets, so start with the basics.

Developing some basic backpacking skills will serve you well too. To get to the really fun stuff in the alpine world you will eventually have to endur long approaches humping a ton a gear. Sometimes, this can be the most physically demanding part of the climb.

Dont worry about your background or your size there brother, there are alot of big guys out there climbing mountains(I'm 6'0 200#). If youve played college ball, you have an idea of what "traing hard" is and this will help you.

The best advice I can give you is to find a mentor. Dosnt have to be an "old guy", in fact, its better if you find someone closer to your own age whose roughly the same size as you. Just as long as they know what they are doing and are willing to teach. Good luck.

Lots of good advice here. All I'd add is that if you're going to be doing any glacier travel then I'd recommend professional instruction in the basics of crevasse rescue.

Stitch has it spot on. I would also highly recommend buying and reading Freedom of the Hills, as it covers virtually every skill you will need in at least some depth. In fact, read lots. Look for anything related to mountaineering. Get the anchor building and self-rescue books. Practice the skills at home.

If you're willing to shell out money, looking for mountaineering courses isn't a bad investment. They tend to be expensive and require going over a lot of basics (which is good for a lot of people) but give you a solid background. I'm not sure what Montana has, but we have the Colorado Mountain Club here.