Is it bad to keep a double fishermans on a stored cordelette?

Well is it? I've always stored my prusiks and cordelettes without untying the double fishermans. Am I setting myself up for trouble?

Yacov wrote:Well is it? I've always stored my prusiks and cordelettes without untying the double fishermans. Am I setting myself up for trouble?

Did you think this question up all on your own or is someone fucking with you by filling your head full useless nonsense?

I have heard of cases of double fisherman's knots cinching progressively tighter over time and finally cutting the cord their tied in under load. Don't have any documentation - just hearsay at this point but the recommendation I was given was don't use them or re-tie periodically.

I have climbed for something like 30 years, and I have never once had to use a prussik. I know the theory behind carrying them, but I can't help finding people who have prussiks and cordelettes hanging off them all the time tend to be goobers. Maybe for something really big wall or adventuring, but if I think I may need one, a single ascender clipped onto the back of my harnes is usually a lot more practical.

I like the prussiks as a just in case thing as well as an option for reinforcing tat anchors that are a bit sun baked. never had a problem with them untying or breaking when i've left them tied...

M Sprague-

Your comment on bringing an ascender rather than a prussik just put you in the goober crew.

Prussiks can be used as runners, tie offs, backups for rappel, short hauling a partner, escaping the belay etc... Just a few.

There is a reason why SAR uses prussiks with most ropework.

The knott left in place on a cordelette/accessory cord/prussik has been STANDARD for decades.

I don't have a problem with keeping the knot. Another thought is to use the flat overhand for the cordalette to give yourself easier time of making adjustments in rigs.

As for hitch loops/prusiks, jumars, gris, etc., I use whatever I can to get to someone fast and perform weight transfers as needed. But I will make adjustments in my equipment before going out depending on the distance into the backcountry/commitment while on a mountain or wall. I believe as long as I'm within my level of acceptable risk, I'm fine with tools that I feel are appropriate.

When performing rescue loads for our team, the use of tandem prusiks are meant as light weight and they serve for things like: load distributors on the mainlines, hauling tractors, adjustable litter tie-ins, or fixed line ascension/traversing to move personnel with rescue & med gear.

Remember that the failure point of every knot is known and/or predictable...knots will fail at the first bend after the load line enters the knot. So, for a double fisherman's trace the load line (standing end) through one of the fisherman's, then through it's own fisherman's before bending around the working end and opposite standing end. If a double fisherman's is going to fail, it will be at that bend, not by choking itself off.

mucci wrote:M Sprague- Your comment on bringing an ascender rather than a prussik just put you in the goober crew. Prussiks can be used as runners, tie offs, backups for rappel, short hauling a partner, escaping the belay etc... Just a few. There is a reason why SAR uses prussiks with most ropework. The knott left in place on a cordelette/accessory cord/prussik has been STANDARD for decades.

As I said, I am familiar with those reasons. I just find that many of those situations can be avoided through proper care or dealt with in other ways. SAR are already going into a situation where there is a problem, so they are appropriate. They may also be useful for more adventurous climbs. Where it gets into goober territory is when I see people unnecessarily hauling wads of them up straightforward one and two pitch routes. For some reason a good proportion of them tend to be awkward climbers. I don't know, maybe they find themselves more often in situations where prussiks are needed. By all means, don't let me dissuade you from bringing them along if there is a chance you will need them. Sometimes I think a little more awareness and simplicity are better then overloading on 20 different things to get you out of a situation.

I used to carry prussiks as well. Never needed them either. There are still many good reasons to have some sort of rope grab device on longer climbs though. I cover it two ways.

1) Small TiBlock in the "oh sh_t" pocket of my chalkbag

2) Shoelaces on my long-day shoes are 3mm Cord. I can make prussiks out of them in a pinch...

These days I don't climb much over 4 pitches, unless a friend is looking to get higher up in the air. Much of the time I am climbing on my own routes, so they tend to have good bolted anchors, but when a trad anchor is needed, I do fine using slings and my rope. If I did more longer trad, I might carry a cordelette.

My indiplomatic statement was more an observation and statement of curiosity then really dissing the use of cordelettes.

most of the people that i climb with (myself included) use the rope to build the anchor, assuming they are swapping leads.

re: prussiks, in the last year my partner had to ascend the rope twice. once with a pair of prussiks, once with a prussik and a grigri.

mattm wrote:2) Shoelaces on my long-day shoes are 3mm Cord. I can make prussiks out of them in a pinch...

Hell yeah! James Bond!

I'll back Sprague up, I carry prussics, I even practice with them sometimes. I prefer to think of myself as more of a gumby than a goober.

John Wilder wrote: I've never heard of such a thing.

Well now we have.

Would anyone like to answer a round of questions from the category MICROFRACTURES for $500?

slim wrote:most of the people that i climb with (myself included) use the rope to build the anchor, assuming they are swapping leads. re: prussiks, in the last year my partner had to ascend the rope twice. once with a pair of prussiks, once with a prussik and a grigri.

Are you using the rope to make an equalized anchor or just clove hitching to each piece in series?

Also for those of you who have had to ascend the rope, what were the circumstances? The only one I'm imagining is getting the rope stuck. I've gotten my rope stuck plenty of times, but I've always preferred to lead or solo up to where it is caught. Are you jugging the stuck rope?

I'm with Mucci on this. I'm one of those people that carries 2 ropegrab devices on me at all times. One of them in particular is a VT Prusik (valdetan, aka french braid.) It has a Technora sheath which can handle high temps and does not glaze. The main reason I carry it is for rescue from above. I can decend a taught rope or use is as a back up on rappel. I learned this from canyoneering and it is also useful in the climbing world.
Justification for carrying rope grabs from a multi-pitch trad perspective would be for escaping a belay as mentioned above.

Yacov wrote:Well is it? I've always stored my prusiks and cordelettes without untying the double fishermans. Am I setting myself up for trouble?

Keep writing Prusik without the required capital letter (it´s a proper noun) and you will be!

2 prussiks always on the harness, period. Just like a belay device. I guess I am a goober, but I have reasons to be thankful for the habit.
Considering the weight/bulk to potential usefulness ratio, it should be a no-brainer.

guide/reverso ... and a single cordelette with double fishermans ....

cord can be chopped for rap tat ... prefer not to sacrifice sewn slings or rope for that ...

John Wilder wrote: the rope. i stopped carrying cordlettes 4 years ago and never looked back. oh sure, i have a couple and occasionally take them if i think i'm going to be running rope stretchers off of fully hanging belays on tiny gear, but otherwise, they're a waste of space.

I typically don't carry a cordalette either. I usually take a couple double length runners to build anchors with. I have enough shoulder runners with me usually that extending pieces out is easy enough. I do carry one sometimes, but they're big and bulky and I just don't like them.

If I think there's a possibility of needing to leave or replace tat, then I'll take some webbing or something but on those kind of climbs I usually have a small daypack so it's negligible.

I usually carry a prussik though, it's come in handy plenty of times. If I'm climbing with my girlfriend I definitely have it just in case she can't pull through a hard section and we're in a hurry. Then it's handy for hauling her butt up or at least putting enough tension in the rope it's easier for her. I've also had to use it when rappeling routes and the rappel anchor was way back under a roof and I had to let go with one hand or weight the prussik so I could work into the anchors.

For multi-pitch trad climbing I think a prusik is pretty necessary for rapeling. It is standard practice in Europe and should be used here more. I know I am guilty of not always doing it.