Boy Scout Climbing Instructors needed

Just curious if there is any one out here on MP that would be willing to be a Boy Scout Climbing Instructor. It's not as easy as it sounds mostly because you have to suck up your pride and go through a course taught by knowledgeable scout leaders, that may or may not have the experience that you may. Even if your Tommy Caldwell you still have to take the course, and it costs $35. Which standards you have to adhere to while scouts are around. It does get you a FEW deals and you can use your time working with the boys as Americore hours. You also have to pass a back ground check. It helps if you like working with kids too. Most kids you'll be working with are 12-18. PM me if you have interest or any questions. Thanks Aaron

Your description of the work really makes we want to help out but I've got a gay family member so I think that makes me ineligible.

Good luck!

Some years ago I volunteered to help the scout troupe here on Maui achieve their rappelling and belay merit badges. I found it to be quite satisfying to work with the Boy Scouts!

This is my nightmare.

If the boy scout instructors actually used "modern" anchoring techniques it might, just maybe, merit enough interest to entice me. But, it still blows my mind away that the boy scout leaders are not allowed to use bolts.

Supporting or participating in BSA activities is to endorse the explicitly discriminatory policies and practices of an organization that can have a powerful educational role on impressionable youth.

If anyone is interested in actually seeing their standards here's the manual they give out to their climbing directors: scribd.com/doc/37202939/Top…

In regards to Brent's comment on bolts... They are allowed to use bolts as long as the bolt is backed up, "inspected" and at least 3/8". See page 66 for more.

There's some photos of bad anchors and tipped out cam placements in there too that are shown as examples of what you're supposed to do.

Bobby Marko wrote: There's some photos of bad anchors and tipped out cam placements in there too that are shown as examples of what you're supposed to do.

This is why I'm asking climbers to help out the instructors that are already out there doing their best with the limited experience they have. We need climbers experiences and knowledge to provide the best environment as possible.
If the standards that the Boy Scouts adhere to offend you. I apologize for them ahead of time, we do not intend to offend anyone, merely we teach boys to have integrity and live better today than yesterday.
Thanks

ldsclimber wrote:If the standards that the Boy Scouts adhere to offend you. I apologize for them ahead of time, we do not intend to offend anyone, merely we teach boys to have integrity and live better today than yesterday. Thanks

Don't you also teach them to be intolerant of homosexuals, through example? Or are you a hypocritical, do-as-we-say-not-as-we-do organization? You can't have it both ways.

--Marc

Wow, the AMGA manual that is NOT. Not that that is up there with the Bible, but... just sayin... Thankfully there is so much redundancy (over)built into institutional systems that it's unlikely you're going to break anything. Even Outward Bound is contracting out for Single Pitch Instructor courses and exams for their staff - might be worth looking into. If you intend to have a modern climbing program to present to today's youth (who may be then going to gyms or outside on their own), it would behoove the BSA to have instructors familiar with the most current, safest practices. Just sayin'...

the example gri gri is loaded backwards on page 38. hmmm

Having recently went through this with the BSA Troop my son participates in, the "Topping Out" guide only applies to district or council activities. It does NOT apply to Troop Level activities.

To take scouts out at the Troop Level all you have to do is agree to follow the guidelines in Climb on Safely ( directservicebsa.org/pdf/20…) This goes on to say that you are qualified if you have had 10 hours of instruction in climbing/rappelling, from a “nationally or regionally recognized organization, climbing school, or college-level climbing/rappelling course.” So, for example, if you are an AMGIA single pitch instructor, etc. you do not have to take the class. In my particular case, I did not want to shell out the $$$ for an AMGIA course, so I volunteered to help as an assistant instructor in the yearly “Climbing School” of the New Mexico Mountain Club. The troop my son attends had no problem accepting my “credentials.” Climb on Safely goes on to say that scouts 13 and older can even lead and ice Climb, “Units with youth who are at least 13 years of age may elect to participate in lead climbing and/or snow and ice climbing with training from a nationally recognized organization that trains climbing instructors. BSA climbing directors and instructors are not trained in lead climbing or snow and ice climbing.”

So while no doubt a nerdy and socially conservative lot, I don't find their climbing policies out of line. Finally, to ldsclimber's comment about Tommy Caldwell not being qualified. I don't know Tommy, other than what I read in the climbing mags, but he might very well be a poor choice for a BSA Troop.

Having taken a Troop out climbing, I found it humbling. It's not as easy as it sounds. There were about ten kids and two qualified instructors, plus five or six anxious parents. One scout was a fearless spider monkey, I had to assign one of the parents to shadow all day, because I was afraid he was going to wander off and start soling stuff when I wasn't looking. Another scout “discovered” his fear of height when he got to the top of his first top rope climb (an 80 foot 5.2 slab pitched over like the flatirons.) For me it was 10% “climbing skills” and 90% “people skills."

Bill Matlin wrote:So while no doubt a nerdy and socially conservative lot, I don't find their climbing policies out of line.

I understand that each individual troop is different, and the quality of each troop is largely based on the management and ethics of the troop leaders.

But, as a whole, what you call "socially conservative" I'd call "socially intolerant." And, from enough personal experience with hoards of boyscouts trampling off the trail, girdling trees, leaving trash, and making the news for destroying artifacts, I'd also applying the description, "ecologically oblivious and devoid of consideration for other user groups."

Sorry, not an organization I want to pay to volunteer for. But, Bill, all the more right headed people involved with the boyscouts the better, so good on you.

Its amazing how quickly folks are to point their finger and criticize. ldsclimber is not asking for anyone to change the world. just to help teach kids proper and safe climbing techniques. Maybe, by your participation, you might have a positive influence on one or more of these impressionable youths, despite your bad self. After all, the world is changed one mind at a time. Funny how that works.

shawn bradley wrote:ldsclimber is not asking for anyone to change the world.

But he is asking us to support an intolerant organization.

--Marc

to the OP,

I'm not interested in the work as I would not have the time to commit,

But I do teach and provide the AMGA SPI course and Exam and I think I might be qualified to do a training for your staff at the least.

If you are interested in modern, techniques, protocol, and institutional climbing and guiding standards I could build a training course for your staff,

Cheers

Joey

Marc H wrote: But he is asking us to support an intolerant organization. --Marc

Unbelievable, the OP asked for us to donate our time to teaching kids how to climb and you've turned it into a "Come help the BSA support the anti-gay movement." did you get beat up by your scout leaders growing up?

I was in the BS in North Carolina growing up and was never exposed to any of that bull$#it we just did alot of camping and tied knots.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_S…

Why would anyone support an organization like this?

Camping and knot tying are fun but teaching intolerance and bigotry as a matter of company policy is far from fun for those affected by it.

I would personally like to see an end to the BSA and the creation of a new organization that actually teaches the next generation (boys and girls) responsible outdoor use habits. I've run into several BSA troops trudging into the wilderness with 70+ lb packs complete with shovels, saws, hatchets and axes with their destination being the same delicate environment that I was headed to with a 30 lb pack only because I'm carrying beer and food for my dog which is always on a leash. The Boyscouts usually have a couple dogs running free ahead of the column of little gentleman as well and I'm sorry but no these little fellas weren't on their way to do volunteer trail building. They were just going "camping".

Last year I tore down and attempted to disperse a BSA weekend campsite that they had built 15 yards from the edge of an alpine lake in a protected wilderness area. They dug down 1 foot an a half on the uphill side to level their sleep area and then rolled several large logs that must have taken at least 12 people to move into a rough square surrounding a large stump. They cut down 6 or so live trees as well as digging up another 30 or 40 dead falls to make the roof which they then tried to latch with live doug fir branches. I know it was the boyscouts because they were nice enough to carve their troop number into the stump in the center of their structure. Building it must have taken them the entire day. Their fire pit looked like something you could roast a pig on. They left it all. Even the can from the pork and beens. It looked more like an army bunker than a campsite.

I realize that this was only one troop and certainly the worst abuse of a wilderness area out of any user group I've ever come across so I also assume that the BSA wouldn't endorse this kind of thing officially but I remember the same kind of shit from my brief stint as a scout. In a word I'd have to say militaristic. It works as an excellent way to program young men into thinking that the most important things in the world are god and country.

Yeah, I think its about time we got over this anachronistic recruiting tool that is still doing its best to encourage another 100 years of hatred and bigotry.

Hey retards(I'm not directing that at everyone here), Aaron is talking about volunteering to help an organization that gets kids involved in the outdoors and their communities. My son is a boy scout and sure, there are some dorks in the organization and it's pretty conservative but the kids have a great time, make memories, and learn to work toward goals, not to mention projects that benefit the community. The BSA is not a climbing club, like many children's activities it's mostly parents trying to keep their kids on a successful path and working towards goals rather than sitting around getting in trouble or going nowhere in life.
p.s., How did sexual orientation become a part of this conversation?

bio wrote: p.s., How did sexual orientation become a part of this conversation?

That is a really good question. One you should direct to the BSA directly since they are the ones that brought it up.

If being tolerant of other sexual orientations and religions (or peoples lack of religion) makes me a retard then you are free to label me as full tard.

Nice job showing the boyscout ethics.

You know, I started writing a different comment. It had references and everything. It got really long. I realized it just isn't possible for me to say everything I think about the BSA without spending all day typing. So instead I'll sum up my biggest issue with them and just hope that they get no help from the MP community.

This is an organization that openly discriminates against females, gays, and atheists/agnostics. They do this while claiming they are a private/religious organization, and can hence do so without consequence. At the same time they claim to be a public group, which would be prohibited by law from discriminating against two of those three groups (the third would still be wrong to discriminate against). Why would a group that loves being a private/religious group which can openly discriminate claim to be a public group? Money. Being a public organization helps them to lobby PTAs, public schools, public libraries, even local, state, and federal government agencies to subsidize/support them (this includes the United States Congress itself). This is a group that looks to the public for support, even though they don't want to live up to the laws that a public entity is held to. When it suits their narrative they are a religious/private organization because that allows them to preach intolerance. When it suits their narrative they are public so they can take money from the public coffers.

As mentioned earlier they are often very inconsiderate of their environmental impact as well.

I could go on for hours with details and citations, but the people who will no doubt request them would ignore them had they been provided in the first place. If you want more info just google anything resembling "Boy Scouts of America Discrimination". You could replace discrimination with hatred, or bigotry, or hypocrisy, etc.

I don't understand how anyone could support such a vile organization.