Drug Trafficking Around Baboquivari?

I was planning on heading back up to Babo this weekend for another ascent (BTW, huge thanks to those here on the forum who helped me piece together the hike and climb for SE Arete!) and found an (unofficial?) advisory for drug trafficking on the beta page from Mountain Project.

I hiked the east approach back in December and found some garbage which I would attribute to light use by immigrants (and possibly hikers/climbers) but nothing to suggest heavy or recent use around the mountain. The west approach, as of the end of March, was totally clean and heavily used by hikers/climbers and the night I spent up there I felt quite safe at the one obvious campsite up there (20 min hike from great ramp).

I'd hate to cancel this weekend's adventure, but if it isn't safe to stay the night up there, I probably will. Anyone have any input or official news as to the conditions on the west side? I'll put a call into Border Patrol tomorrow to see what their take is.

Thanks in advance for the responses.

Standard answer for all of S AZ is likely going to be there are drug smugglers every where. No doubt the BP will have some standard answer based on not wanting to be held responsible if anything should happen.

IMO smugglers are like rattle snakes you know they are out there but you will rarely see one.

I haven't been up on Babo for years but I have been down around the border some. Mostly around Parker Lake on the Arizona Trail. Usually see some evidence of traffic rarely see anyone.

Lots of people think you should pack some kind of firearm. Personally I think it would cause you more trouble in the long run. IMO the smugglers don't want to have anything to do with non PB Americans leave them be and they will leave you be. I can't see how packing a little pea shooter would do you any good when the smugglers would likely have some kind of assault rifle. They carry these weapons to protect their loads from bandits, not to take out some guy sleeping in a tent.

Personally I wouldn't let some remote possibility stop me from getting out and doing the things I enjoy. In the end you have to judge for your self if it's worth it or not.

That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell as well.

I'm hopefull that the BP has something informative to say, but yeah, most likely it'll be a standard answer. For anyone else who wants to get a hold of the BP, the two numbers I got off their website are 520.748.3000 for the main BP office and 520.387.7002 for the Ajo station (which I think encompases Aravaca).

You really should have no problems. I live near the area in question and yes at night time the desert is loaded with smugglers and immigrants. Lots of smuggling happening in the night hours down here. Yes,the previous gentlemen is right. The smugglers dont mess with folks unless they get caught in the way.I dont think carrying a firearm is necessary, but that is your right as a citizen and could help you if in the small chance you got stuck in something. Small chance. Have a great trip, and leave no trace. Actually it would be safer there then Tuscon if you do the math. This area is no more dangerous then any where else. Folks get killed all over the place. I would say the drive down would be the most dangerous part of the journey.

I am one of the many attorneys that defend the guys you might see out there after they have been arrested and brought into federal court. I have been doing this since 1995.

While it is true a lot of smuggling goes on in the Babo area, I have never heard of a problem with climbers. On the other hand, I have heard many times about climbers having somewhat scary encounters with Border Patrol or ICE. The patrol sees people or vehicles, naturally assumes smuggling, makes a full felony-type stop and wants to search your vehicle.

We are climbers. We like adventure. We like risk. Seeing smugglers is kind of like seeing a lion—very rare. Simply pay attention. Lock your car. Do not leave anything valuable inside. Do not leave camping gear lying around. Do not try to take pictures of smugglers. Just leave them alone and stay out of their way. Do not scare them. They are already scared and that is when problems happen.

Smugglers move at night and mostly hide during the daylight hours. It is unusual to see them during the day. Seeing them during the day may mean something has gone wrong.

Most of the guys you might see out there are poor, unemployed Mexican farmers. If you think the economy is bad here, it is much worse across the line. These guys are either running weed, running people or just trying to come here and get a low paying job. They want to avoid you far more than you want to avoid them. We are talking survival. They do not want any problems.

Some of these guys are probably carrying a backpack that is heavier than yours. They are tired, thirsty, scared, hungry and just want to get back home without getting hurt, jacked or being arrested. Their feet hurt. They got horrendous blisters. They just want to put food on the table for their kids. I have represented a lot of these guys and it is very rare to see a real “bad ass.” This is not to say that there are not dangerous guys out there, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

The fact of the matter is simply, if they were they to rob, hurt or kill a climber they would probably be dead men when they got back to Mexico. The guides/spotters (guys higher up the food chain) know this fact. Killing a “macho/gabacho” climber would bring so much heat down upon them that the guy that runs the plaza would probably order them immediately killed. Take for example, the murder of that poor rancher Robert Krentz.

It is still the old west. Babo is a mysterious, wonderful place. Be glad for it. Savor it. Explore, get lost, get scared, see amazing things. It will be gone before you know it.

Just pay attention and use good judgment.

Scott Mc

We went to Baboquivari on the west side about 3 weeks ago. The trail was in great shape and there was no sign of illegal traffic on the trail. About 3/4 of the way between the trailhead and the great ramp, a new trail had been put in. It is perpendicular to the old trail and simply crosses it - it doesn't use any part of the old trail.

The last time I went in on the east side, about 2 years ago, there was a lot of illegal traffic going on in Thomas Canyon. Garbage all over and people jumping into the bushes. We ran into a group of four. The person I was with spoke a little Spanish so we were able to communicate with them. The situation was a little uncomfortable but they looked like fairly ordinary fellows who were coming to the U.S. for work. All things considered, I prefer not to run into them...

When we went in on the west side three weeks ago, it was Saturday and there were a lot of people hanging around in the campground. Some people just sitting around in their pickups - looking like they might be waiting to pick someone up. Anyway, when we returned and we approached the campground, my thoughts were, "I hope the truck is still there." It was late when we got there and the people camping there started yelling at us, "Are you O.K.? Did anyone get hurt? Do you want anything to eat?" They were so nice...

I did the west approach a couple years ago in April, and we had no problems on the approach hike or during the two nights we spent at the campground -- aside from the cows that were grazing nearby. I had earplugs, but my buddy got sick of all the moo-ing going on all night and went and slept in the car.

+1 to everything Scott said. I have run into the Border Patrol here and there in the So. AZ desert and I think they like to exaggerate. Their job becomes more complicated the more "legal" traffic such as climbers, hunters, etc. are out there. Chances of you running into an armed drug smuggler who actually wants a piece of you seem pretty rare. Probably more likely in Phoenix.

Drug smuggling with the Tohono O'odham?

Where do I sign up?

Hey Charles, thanks for the info you sent me for Babo back in January/Febuary! Had a very successfull climb back in mid March. First time up Babo and the SE Arete for both I and my fellow climber. That beta was very helpfull. Thanks again!

I gave BP a call today to find out if there were any official advisories out there for that area. I was instantly transfered over to the BP PR representative who immediately asked me my name and who I work for. After giving her my name I told her that I was calling as a private citizen and did not represent any organization and simply wanted to know if it was safe to camp in the area. She stated that BP does not issue any official advisories and would not comment on the safety of the area and wanted to know what I was planning on doing out there. After a somewhat spirited debate on the boundaries and legalities of camping on BLM land, there was a little bit of back and fourth as I attempted to wrestle some advice from her at which point she said, "I don't know about that area, maybe you shouldn't camp there." I politely thanked her for answering none of my questions and may not have wished her well in closing.

At first I was trying to justify her responses as having something to do with the security of agents or operations in the field. However on inspection of their web site, they publish a weekly blotter by area where arrests/siesures/gun battles/skinned knees are fully documented and published. So the question is, why couldn't this documentation be assembled into the form of something meaningful such as historical statistics on said arrests/siesures/gun battles/skinned knees and dissiminated through such an architecture as PR which would allow the public the ability to make informed dicisions on personal safety? I'm not coming up with very good answers.

So...

F-- it, I'm going to go climb.

Thanks again for all the responses. The posts above (not directly) were very insightfull.