how to swtich belayer on a multi pitch route.

just flip the rope over at the belay. untying is just another chance of fucking something up and reflaking the rope takes too long. I don't use my rope in the anchor, I just carry a 4 foot sling doubled across my shoulder as a gear sling/anchor and my 2nd does too. stack the rope as you belay up your second butterfly style across your tie in point. then when your second gets clipped in flip the stack over their tie in sling and lead on.

1) Rope management - bump to all of the respondents above who recommend organizing the rope while belaying and just flipping the rope to reverse its direction. This is the safest and most efficient way that I have come across. I wound NOT recommend untying and retying for safety and efficiency reasons.

2) Gear swap - have your follower clean gear onto a sling. Have him/her clean in an organized fashion, preferably cleaning onto the sling in the exact same order that you rack your gear on your harness.

3) Flow - build your anchor with the direction of the next pitch in mind. This should dictate where you direct your follower to park him or herself. When your second arrives at the belay, s/he clips into the anchor and hands you the gear. While you re-rack, your second is flipping the rope and putting you on belay.

Finer point, I often belay off the anchor (vs belay loop) so that it's comfy and safe to belay while you look over the topo to figure out the beta for the next pitch. Also, refuel on food and water so that you can start climbing ASAP.

Good luck and climb safe.

germsauce wrote:are you guys nuts? giving advice to this guy is like letting a 13 year old borrow your car. I think trying to meter out advice on a forum like this to someone with no experience (no offense to bryan) is irresponsible. Bryan, BUY the book, better yet hook up with some experienced friends at the gym. don't die, it makes us all look bad.

Wow, really?

All he wants to know how to do is switch leads. He could ask one mentor for his opinion, or ask a whole group of moderately experienced climbers online and determine which answer is the best.

He's taking personal responsibility for himself here. This is why America needs to harden the f*** up. No one wants anyone else to be personally responsible.

Scott McMahon wrote:Remember if flaking over your tie in point to start the flakes small and progressively get bigger.

Sure about that one Scott?

Bryan - please, just go to the crag and ask someone to teach you. And yes, diagrams in a book are generally thought out and easy to understand. Noise from 50 somewhat experienced climbers will only serve to confuse.

rope management. beau

Scott McMahon wrote:...Remember if flaking over your tie in point to start the flakes small and progressively get bigger. It's all about practice too...

Price wrote: Sure about that one Scott?

What's the issue if he plans to flip the rope?

the process is really no different between multipitch trad or sport, just the gear the anchors is made of. A lot of experienced climbers struggle with transitions, my recommendation is to always flake your rope neatly and avoid lap coils (flaking the rope in loops over your belay tether) if at all possible. You can almost always use the pancake flake and pat it down with your foot every now and then to keep it neat. when you are ready to lead the next pitch, simply flip the stack over like a pancake. i have never found a reason to untie and switch ends. i am also a huge advocate of seeking out an experienced mentor or hiring a guide for some hands on experience and take a self rescue class.

When I first started climbing, most of what I learned came from books and the internet. When it comes to multipitch, get out with people who know what they are doing until you are comfortable with it. There is no easy escape if something goes wrong with both climbers off the deck.

Bill Olszewski wrote:Good advice, all. Remember that the anchor you build is the single most important thing you will do on a multi-pitch trad route (unless the particular route you have in mind has bolted belay stations). But most trad lines don't, so be sure you REALLY understand anchors before you allow yourself to be the one in the team responsible for both lives. If you don't know anchors, take a class or climb with someone who has a lot of experience in building anchors. Also good to read up on systems. In a nutshell (but LEARN this, don't just do what I say here): Place 3 solid pieces; run a cordalette between the three; pull the cordalette between pieces, you should end up with 3 loops; EQUALIZE the loops, this is your master point. I prefer to tie an overhand figure 8 at the master point, some do not as the system is now no longer self equalizing (different techniques to accomplish that). Lock your PAS into the master point and load the system (no slack). Make sure your partner locks his PAS to the master point when he gets there.

Not trying to start a long engaged argument but before Bryan takes your advice to heart he should realize a couple things. First 3 pieces will sometimes cut it and sometimes not. Second a cordolette with different length legs loads the shortest length leg vastly more than the others. The reason is because of the stretch of the cord. The longer legs have more cord which equals more stretch. Therefore they sustain a much smaller load than the piece closest to the master point. I would check out an equallette. I keep one (two if multi-pitch) pre-rigged on all trad climbs. Its easily adjustably, allows for equalization, limits extension, and also makes transitions at belay stations easy. The biggest upside to it is that it distributes the load across the anchors far better than a normal cordolette setup would.

To the OP I flip the nicely wound rope as many others have already stated.

Choss Chasin' wrote: Not trying to start a long engaged argument but before Bryan takes your advice to heart he should realize a couple things. First 3 pieces will sometimes cut it and sometimes not. Second a cordolette with different length legs loads the shortest length leg vastly more than the others. The reason is because of the stretch of the cord. The longer legs have more cord which equals more stretch. Therefore they sustain a much smaller load than the piece closest to the master point. I would check out an equallette. I keep one (two if multi-pitch) pre-rigged on all trad climbs. Its easily adjustably, allows for equalization, limits extension, and also makes transitions at belay stations easy. The biggest upside to it is that it distributes the load across the anchors far better than a normal cordolette setup would. To the OP I flip the nicely wound rope as many others have already stated.

No arguments from me, but to be fair to Bill he did say three "solid" pieces, which I believe most would agree is "enough".

As for the OP, put me in the flip or re-flake catagory, I don't like to untie mid-pitch unless there is a compelling reason.

And finally, you should be punished for even bringing up the subject of cordolette vs. equallette.

I do this all the time when i take my wife climbing (she doesn't lead). I always tie into the anchor with the rope, and when she gets there I tie her in on a second locking caribiner, usually a little further from the anchor. She passes me the gear she's just cleaned (on a sling) and re-flakes the rope across her tether or on the ledge if there is one. If your partner is quick at it, they should be done flaking the rope by the time you've got all your gear organized. Alternatively you could clip in with slings and switch ends, but it's more complicated and (i think) really saves no time, but there are circumstances where I've done that (teams of 3, for example). Just make sure you double check that you're both safe at every step and you'll figure out what works best for you.

-sp wrote: No arguments from me, but to be fair to Bill he did say three "solid" pieces, which I believe most would agree is "enough". As for the OP, put me in the flip or re-flake catagory, I don't like to untie mid-pitch unless there is a compelling reason. And finally, you should be punished for even bringing up the subject of cordolette vs. equallette.

He did say 3 solid pieces. I agree this is enough as well. I was just trying to say a "solid" placement to a new trad climber is usually far less than solid.

I'll send you my address so I can be punished accordingly for bringing up cordolette vs. equallette =). I admit I do deserve to get punched in the gut, haha.

No way would I EVER untie unless for some unforseen circumstance. With a nicely stacked or lapped rope, the changeover is very quick and eliminates unnecessary risk.

Try not to stack your rope on a pile of loose rocks. If you lap stack, just do it nicely...the flip is a honed technique, too. If you nicely lap stack your rope, but are sloppy in the flip, then you're asking for a problem. Either way, have your belayer be mindful of the next 15 feet of rope coming up; then a problem can be eliminated before it gets to their belay hand when you need rope!

-1 for switching rope ends with your partner. When it's late and you're tired, it's just another opportunity to make a mistake, especially if you're in a hanging belay on a multi-day ascent with tons of other gear clipped every which way (and a haul bag or two).

Switching the belayer is probably easiest with a cordelette or similar. You both clip into the master point, the belayer reflakes the rope and the leader organizes the gear. Then the leader is put on belay and off he goes!

But you don't have to use a cordelette, etc.

I've been climbing a bunch with my 12 yr old son recently, and I tie into the anchors with my rope. When my son gets to the belay I use his rope to tie into the same anchor placements (with different carabiners).

Then we reflake the rope, put me on belay and off I go!

p.s. remember to set an anchor that supports an upward pull.