When wiper fluid & climbing rope meet...your thoughts?

Somehow a container of wiper fluid and the "childproof" cap came undone and spilled about half a gallon in the back of my car. One of my half ropes took a nice bath in it. The ingredients on the jug are: water, methyl alcohol, and propylene glycol. Anyone got any info as to whether my rope is cooked or not? Thanks in advance.

Greg, that's a hard question to answer.
For Sale: 50m 10.1, 4 years old, not sure of brand, half dozen lead falls. 70m 10.2 metolius 2 years old, half dozen lead falls. Make an offer, all offers considered.

I doubt glycol is acid in any way. Its whats in anti-freeze and is non-corrosive. Should be fine. But if you have to ask...

Email the rope manufacturer? See their response. Maybe they or BD would want to pull test it?

Greg,

I am sorry to say, but if it were my rope I would retire it.

carlislefsp.com/files/solve…

(refer to the second paragraph titled 'Nylon')

i say you're fine. propylene glycol is used in plastics as an anti-static additive. non-corrosive. used in a lot of cosmetics as well. just don't drink a lot of it, cause it's kinda sweet. and as for the methyl alcohol, if alcohol caused damage to ropes then there'd be a WHOOOOLE lotta dead climbers who've spilled booze on their lines.

Matt N wrote:I doubt glycol is acid in any way. Its whats in anti-freeze and is non-corrosive. Should be fine. But if you have to ask... Email the rope manufacturer? See their response. Maybe they or BD would want to pull test it?

You're right for the most part. Glycols (or we'll just say an alcohols for simplicity) are basic by nature, not acidic. They can become deprotonated but it takes a very, very strong base. That being said, you should take the time to read the link in the above post. The most common type of nylon, Nylon-66, is a polymer of adipic acid, and acids have a tendency to combine with bases (in this case the alcohols) which will change the chemical composition of the nylon. The decreased strength of the nylon will depend on how much of the alcohol reacted with the adipic acid.

When in doubt......
Especially since its a double, at a minimum just thinking about it will inhibit your climbing as much as moving beyond manky gear.

I've spent all Winter working boilers in Vail. Every hydronic system up there has a 40% min. glycol mixture, so whenever I do a repair I have to collect, test, and pump glycol back in, so I've had it all over my hands many times. It causes a light, burn-like rash if I don't wash it off. I don't think there's much in washer fluid, but still makes you wonder. Why don't you rig up a test? Use a duffel bag and stuff about 180 lbs. of books in it, throw it off a balcony for a factor 1 fall. Or tie it to your car and a tree. Personally, I'd just make it a haul line.

Edit add: if you do the balcony test, be sure to video it just in case things go hilariously wrong.

All, thanks for the replies. Here's a quandary I thought of last night. The bottle the washer fluid is in is some type of synthetic (nylon, HDPE...something). Could this container be made of something with a drastically different chemical structure than the nylon in the rope? It's been a long time since my last days of chemistry, so I appreciate everyone's view. I agree the safest thing to do with an unclear answer will be to retire the rope.

I have an e-mail into Mammut (manufacturer of this particular half-rope) to see if they will comment on the situation. Though from a liability point I'm not sure how much help they can really offer. I'll summarize whatever they say.

+1 for contacting the manufacturer. it seems a lot of the manufacturers take the tact of giving real and complete information when it comes to stuff like this. it'll be interesting to see what mammut says.

and, as others have already said, if you don't have confidence in the rope, the rope is effectively ruined regardless of the chemical reaction. unless the manufacturer (or someone VERY reliable) gave me a straight, "The rope is fine!", I'd probably start looking for deals on my next rope. it sucks but so does the idea of climbing on a rope i don't trust.

Evan Sanders wrote: You're right for the most part. Glycols (or we'll just say an alcohols for simplicity) are basic by nature, not acidic. They can become deprotonated but it takes a very, very strong base. That being said, you should take the time to read the link in the above post. The most common type of nylon, Nylon-66, is a polymer of adipic acid, and acids have a tendency to combine with bases (in this case the alcohols) which will change the chemical composition of the nylon. The decreased strength of the nylon will depend on how much of the alcohol reacted with the adipic acid.

Wow, that's some of the most mis-used chemical knowledge I've ever seen.

Methanol is not basic in the conventional sense (Arrhenius theory). See
this paper
Yes, it can be protonated to form the methyloxonium ion, but this won't occur in the presence of water because water itself is a more powerful Bronsted-Lowry base than the methanol. See
this one
A "polymer of adipic acid", huh? It's a condensation copolymer with a diamine. And the functionality is amide; there's no adipic acid left in the polymer.

Greg - your rope should be fine. Do a google search on "nylon solvent compatibility". The Cole-Parmer site is a good one. Ask a Chem faculty member for assistance if you need it.

Gunkiemike wrote: Wow, that's some of the most mis-used chemical knowledge I've ever seen. Methanol is not basic in the conventional sense (Arrhenius theory). See this paper Yes, it can be protonated to form the methyloxonium ion, but this won't occur in the presence of water because water itself is a more powerful Bronsted-Lowry base than the methanol. See this one A "polymer of adipic acid", huh? It's a condensation copolymer with a diamine. And the functionality is amide; there's no adipic acid left in the polymer. Greg - your rope should be fine. Do a google search on "nylon solvent compatibility". The Cole-Parmer site is a good one. Ask a Chem faculty member for assistance if you need it.

Not misused just misinformed. I was told nylon was a polymer of adipic acid, if it's wrong thanks for correcting me. I just went off of what I've been taught, didn't bother to look anything up. I just thought about it in the Bronstead sense for it being basic, I forgot about the Arrhenius theory. My acid-base education is more on titrations, not so much Arrhenius, Bronstead, and Lewis theories. I'm an inorganic chemist, I don't get that much into organic compounds

I'm am Organic Chemistry Professor.
You are fine. Propylene glycol and water are harmless. They are components in most mild soaps. You basically gave the rope an unintended bath.
Methanol will damage a rope only in VERY high concentrations. Soak the cord in some clean water, have a beer, and relax.