why this route?

A friend of mine much more experienced than i brought to my attention last season that i was way to focused on the grade of what im climbing. Ive had some time to really think about it and came to the conclusion that i think he was right, although trad climbing in the gunks and adirondacks let alone trad climbing anywhere can get you in over your head quick, i decided to try and focus more on climbing "good" or classic routes that are fun rather than just trying to push my grade. While at the same time i like to go hard sport climbing very once and a while to pump out some 12's that i would never climb on trad.

I just wanted some opinion on the subject and to get some other thoughts. I think the most true thing i learned was that there are alot of absolutely terrible hard routes out there.

I'm a mediocre climber (judged by the grades I climb) & always will be (I don't climb often enough any more to push my limits). I'm absolutely fine with that, because I'm out there to have fun, to enjoy being with climbing friends, and to stay fit. I've discovered routes rated 5.6 that I think are a blast to climb, so I'm happy to return to them.

Magazines and websites thrive on praising the 5.14+ climbers, but there are tons of us up here in the high region of the bell curve having a wonderful time climbing 5.7 - 5.9. Savor the experience!

Go to a crag, any crag, with out a guide book or any route specific knowledge. Figure out the descents, that's it. Walk the base until you see something that catches your eye and just climb it. It's very refreshing.

When I go to an area that I might not get to see again I climb as many routes as possible. This means on-sighting. Sport, trad, whatever the climbs are that look the best to me. Sometimes if I fall I'll try one or two more times before moving on.

If a route is a classic, or even if it's just one you want to do, the grade shouldn't matter. Just go climb it and enjoy it. Sometimes there is nothing more fun that cruising long route that is well below your limit. Climbing light, not stopping to much to place gear, linking long pitches. A good climb is a good climb, no matter how close or far it might be from your limit.

The way to advance is knowing your style and what you are psyched on.
Find those routes and take the baby steps it takes to redpoint them.If it takes Head Point or TR practice that can work. Anything to get your mind to say "I can send this", "I am sending this route on this trip". Hard climbing takes hard focus, hard work, and commitment.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow".
For me Hard bouldering got me used to hard moves with serious consequences and not even thinking of falling. Its all in your mind and getting used to the intensity and smaller footholds and smears associated with harder routes.
Most important is a strong mind, strong abs, stretching and a bit if compulsive obsession.

In the absence of rules, there can be no right or wrong. Our motives are the fuel that propels us to the crag, frozen face, distant summit or remote lines. Whatever that motive is, let it be your guide. Climbing is an expression and whether that expression is the pursuit of the next grade or complacency in and enjoyment of existing abilities, it remains that it is the source of what brings a smile to your face at the end of the day and carries you through the work week.

I've come to realize that while some of us will find peace in not ever trying to progress beyond a certain difficulty, others will find that same peace and nirvana in conquering the next grade. Don't even consider adopting someone else's motive(s). If you had the entire planet to yourself.. no language, no ratings, absolutely no reason for ego, .. what would you climb? Go there and then you will know what drives you.

Ryan Williams wrote:Go to a crag, any crag, with out a guide book or any route specific knowledge. Figure out the descents, that's it. Walk the base until you see something that catches your eye and just climb it. It's very refreshing. When I go to an area that I might not get to see again I climb as many routes as possible. This means on-sighting. Sport, trad, whatever the climbs are that look the best to me. Sometimes if I fall I'll try one or two more times before moving on. If a route is a classic, or even if it's just one you want to do, the grade shouldn't matter. Just go climb it and enjoy it. Sometimes there is nothing more fun that cruising long route that is well below your limit. Climbing light, not stopping to much to place gear, linking long pitches. A good climb is a good climb, no matter how close or far it might be from your limit.

I really like that idea, to goto a cliff and climb what you want completely based on aesthetics, completely unbiased. The only thing i would fear would be getting onto something thats very dangerous or out of my league (on gear). Maby this would be perfect to pick a line and just get a simple yes or no from a partner looking at the guidebook to say its safe or no not a good idea?

jaysen wrote: Maby this would be perfect to pick a line and just get a simple yes or no from a partner looking at the guidebook to say its safe or no not a good idea?

My favorite hard lines i've ever done were suggested by my climbing partner who didn't have a concept of my subconscious glass ceiling I often place upon myself. I feel like we all have a limit we place upon ourselves of what we think we can do. Even if that limit is slightly outside of our comfort level, it's often still within our physical means. By looking at a climb's number and saying i can't do that. You've already failed. If you get to a point where u want to push ur limits on gear, sometimes having a very knowledgeable partner that knows ur true climbing ability,sometimes better than you do, is very helpful. Someone to look at the book and the route and say "yep, rack up, u got it". Find u a climbing partner like that and you will climb some great climbs. Just make sure they are trustworthy and knowledgeable not someone who secretly gets their ego boost by watching their partner fail. I climb best when the grade either isn't important or isn't known because less ego is involved.

also one that drops the line "we can't be pussys all our lives" seems to help

it's probably not a bad idea to know if the route has an R/X rating before you hop onto it.

as for the risk of onsighting with no beta, i haven't gotten onto very many routes and found myself in terrain that was far harder than what i'd expected from the ground. i can't recall it every happening, actually. that's not to say i haven't underestimated the difficulty of a climb. i do that all the time.

but, i haven't found many climbs where the crux is hidden and so much harder than what i can see that it puts the climb out of my range. that applies when I'm climbing comfortably within my limit, of course.

if i'm climbing at the 11a/b range and i seek out something that looks 11a/b-ish, i could very well discover a section that's actually 11d and beyond my ability. but, if i hop on something that looks like a 10, it's probably going to be 10-ish or below throughout the climb.

I haven't been climbing as long as as a lot of people on this site and maybe others have had different experiences. but, i'd say that if it looks comfortably within your range from the ground, it is probably going to be that way for most of the climb.

jaysen wrote:I think the most true thing i learned was that there are alot of absolutely terrible hard routes out there.

I think you have to climb the occasional "terrible" route to appreciate the good ones.

--Marc

jaysen wrote:i decided to try and focus more on climbing "good" or classic routes that are fun rather than just trying to push my grade.

At this point in my life, with the amount of time I have to climb, my goal is to lead 5.10 trad. I figure if I can do that I can climb just about anywhere.

My motivation for climbing is to get up stuff. Out west here I look at mountains, towers, domes, etc and to get on top is my motivation. Sometimes the approach, finding the climb, logistics, bivy etc.. is a bigger and better part of my day then climbing.

Maybe you need to do some aid, look at grades in a whole different way.

I agree with Rick, with limited amount of time to climb, there is a need to focus on attaining a certain level of ability so that you can achieve and enjoy your objectives. So, to me, a short term focus on grades in order to open up more possibilities in the present or in the future is not a bad thing.

jaysen wrote: I really like that idea, to goto a cliff and climb what you want completely based on aesthetics, completely unbiased. The only thing i would fear would be getting onto something thats very dangerous or out of my league (on gear). Maby this would be perfect to pick a line and just get a simple yes or no from a partner looking at the guidebook to say its safe or no not a good idea?

You could have someone scope out the route in a guide book, but it's not essential. What BSU-Zac says about partners is dead on, but when it comes to getting in over your head, sometimes it's good practice.

I'm not advocating getting on a committing multi-pitch adventure just because the summit looks cool from the valley. But when cragging, you can find out a lot of information about the route by just walking around and looking at it from different angles. You should be doing this anyway, even if you do know the grade and description. If the route looks ridiculously hard or there is an obvious lack of protection then you might want to keep looking.

Also, if you climb smart, you will back down long before you get into a situation that could get you hurt or dead. It's simple - Don't do any moves above shitty gear that you can't reverse. If there is good gear then keep going. If you find more good gear then keep going. The more good gear you place and the higher from the ground you get, the safer you are, most of the time. You should climb like that regardless of how much you know about the route.

I had a relevant experience recently. I am learning to climb on the British Grit Stone and it seems that part of the deal is that you are nearly always looking at potentially bad falls. So I get on this climb that is below my limit from a grade standpoint but that doesn't really matter because it's like my 5th lead on this type of rock. I place a bomber cam, pull through what is probably the technical crux and get to the scary pumpy part of the climb where if you fall off you might deck. Well I realized that if I made this next move that I was committed to either topping out or decking. I wasn't happy with that (at least not on this climb on this day) so I reversed a few moves and then came off due to pump and landed safely 6 or 8 feet from the ground.

I had expected for the pro to be better but I got too pumped and missed a key nut placement. So I decided not to make that committing move that was probably to hard for me to reverse with the pump I had. That should ALWAYS be in your bag of tricks, no matter how much you know about the route.

I would have liked to on-sight the route but in the end I learned a bit about what to expect from the Grit and how to read the rock. I learned that I need to plan a bit more from the ground where I am going to pace gear so when I'm tired I can get it in and stay safe. It also gave me a lot of confidence to go and do exactly what I am recommending for you to do. My instinct took over and told me that I was one decision away from maybe getting carried down the hill. I didn't think about it... I just did it. This gives me confidence in my decision making and leads me to believe that I'm OK to go and push my limits.

this is better than the run away kid in Provo( mountainproject.com/u/jf_se… ) with a rack that some guy gave him though its a bit more dry. I like it, nice troll!

btw- how those manpris fitting? LOL

Daryl Allan wrote:In the absence of rules, there can be no right or wrong. Our motives are the fuel that propels us to the crag, frozen face, distant summit or remote lines. Whatever that motive is, let it be your guide. Climbing is an expression and whether that expression is the pursuit of the next grade or complacency in and enjoyment of existing abilities, it remains that it is the source of what brings a smile to your face at the end of the day and carries you through the work week. I've come to realize that while some of us will find peace in not ever trying to progress beyond a certain difficulty, others will find that same peace and nirvana in conquering the next grade. Don't even consider adopting someone else's motive(s). If you had the entire planet to yourself.. no language, no ratings, absolutely no reason for ego, .. what would you climb? Go there and then you will know what drives you.

Nice. 100% agreed.

Rick Blair wrote: At this point in my life, with the amount of time I have to climb, my goal is to lead 5.10 trad. I figure if I can do that I can climb just about anywhere. My motivation for climbing is to get up stuff. Out west here I look at mountains, towers, domes, etc and to get on top is my motivation. Sometimes the approach, finding the climb, logistics, bivy etc.. is a bigger and better part of my day then climbing. Maybe you need to do some aid, look at grades in a whole different way.

I also agree with Rick. If you can climb 5.10 trad (and 5.12 sport) then pretty much every climbing area in the world is open to you. Those were, and still are my goals. But I balance it out with days of nothing but pure fun on the rock when the numbers can just kiss my ass. I don't think I'd enjoy climbing if I was always chasing a number, but I also don't think I'd enjoy climbing if I didn't set goals. It's a thin line, but it can be walked.

jaysen wrote:I think the most true thing i learned was that there are alot of absolutely terrible hard routes out there.

There are lots of terrible routes at every grade. You say you want to focus on the classic easier routes, do the same for the hard routes. Find the lines that excite and inspire you.

IMO, especially if you spend a lot of time in an area (home crag), doing the great easy lines will pay you back down the road. Get a solid base at every grade.

I wanted to throw in my agreement with Ryan's suggestion to try some "exploration" climbing. Find a line that looks fun and climbable and just do it -- no pretext.

I did this myself a couple of weeks ago. I saw what I thought was a random crack while I was on a hike and decided to come back with a partner to climb it.

It seemed very protectable all the way up and "looked easy", but I got to a section that was harder climbing than I anticipated -- but thankfully as well-protected as I had assessed. I pulled through the tough section and got to the top for the on-sight ascent.

Later that day I made my way down to a nearby established climbing area and started looking at routes in my guide to get oriented. It turns out that the "random crack" was indeed in the guide book and it was a full two grades harder than anything I had ever climbed on gear previously. :)

I'm still thinking about that climb...