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Umbilicals?

Original Post
Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

I really rely on my umbilicals. As much as they are a moving belay for me I also have come to rely on them to retain my tools while climbing leashless. On the occasions I do climb without umbilicals I am very careful to watch where my tools are all the time and that they are securely placed. And I don't worry about my partners kicking or bumping them off the climb. May be I should be more concerned all the time..

more here:
coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

OReid · · Denver, CO · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 35

Nice article. I'm curious though: Do you know folk who have actually fallen onto their umbilicals? Granted, the FF will be low, but it's still static webbing. It seems like it would be really easy to generate forces that would rip out most placements. Might adding a screamer between your harness and the umbilical tie in be a good solution?

I've always thought of umbilicals as no-drop insurance, with the disadvantage that if you do fall they will probably rip your tools and cause them to rebound into your face...

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

I saw one guy fall on his on mixed. We were all surprised it held and then were just waiting for him to get hit in the face with the tool. It worked out okay but it was pretty interesting to watch.

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562
OReid wrote:Do you know folk who have actually fallen onto their umbilicals? Granted, the FF will be low...
Actually the fall factor can get pretty high on umblicals. And none of them are rated to take a fall. But yes I know and have seen reports of a number of folks falling on their umbilicals. To date not heard of a umbilical failing and on what other wise would have been some big tumbles...stopped. But just a matter of time is my take on that one.

Screamers? Good idea and you aren't the first to suggest it. Just too much rubbish at my crotch was my take on it. Likely the tie in loop will blow before the commercial umbilicals will.
Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110
alpinedave.com/leashless_ri…

For those who like to make there own gear...
Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

More on umbilicals in general:

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

paintrain · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 75

I made my own as well and looped my nomics like Dane. Then I bought a BD umbilical last year that is pretty nice. The BD biners could be nicer (as in stronger), but it is much better than my homemade setup.

It takes a lot of the nagging stress of dropping a tool out of leashless climbing. They can be a little annoying during a lead swap at the belays, but I wouldn't give them up for anything on alpine/mulitpitch ice.

PT

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

Typical commercial umbilical biners are a good bit stronger than the webbing they are sewn to.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

Well I have a pair of the grivels and played with them twice I really thought I needed em but sofar they spend all there time in my pack.

In three years of leashless climbing I've never dropped a tool I think for me anyway it's a subconscious process that I just automatically place them deeper when I know my hand will be off the tool to place pro or whatever. But than again that's just me ....

Just a thought for anyone who thinks the biners that come with the commercial leashes are cheap( BD comes to mind) the Grivels have a way cool no snag locker that is superior IMHO . Just get a couple Metolius FS mini biners ...

I suppose it will happen that someday I will drop a tool and it will prolly be while climbing mixed after bashing myself in the head ,well that's if I don't get pissed and throw the tool first.

Cheers

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

The gate on the BD biners reversing is a pretty common issue. They had to have experienced it in testing?? It's the only thing that bugs me about them.

I've only dropped a tool on mixed, or rather left it above me when I pumped out (twice). I've got a funny video to post today though just on this topic.

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562
Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325

I replaced the stock 'biners on my BD spinner tether with the Metolius FS mini-biners. I have not had any trouble with them spontaneously un-clipping.

Though I climbed the last 2 seasons mostly with tethers, I started this year without, and generally like without better though I will continue to use them on long, remote routes and in the alpine. Tethers also make it a bit of a pain to rack your tools to ice clippers on your harness.

Tea · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 223

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coop Best · · Glenwood Springs, CO · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 485

So BD or Grivel?

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485
Kevin Craig wrote:I replaced the stock 'biners on my BD spinner tether with the Metolius FS mini-biners.
I have a FS mini, i'll have to try it out. Thanks. I generally like climbing w/o the tethers too but leading hard (for me) or long routes I need the piece of mind still.
Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
Chris Plesko wrote: I have a FS mini, i'll have to try it out. Thanks. I generally like climbing w/o the tethers too but leading hard (for me) or long routes I need the piece of mind still.
OK, so here's the trick. Unless you have a lot of patience, you'll need to cut just a little bit of the bar tacking to fit the Metolius biners through the webbing (and use a Dremel to cut off the stock biners). I was a tiny bit concerned about this, but the tethers are only supposed to be body weight anyway, I was very careful to cut the least amount possible and haven't experienced any additional fraying or anything (and I mainly just rely on them to keep my tools with me).

Your choice if you want to make the same trade-offs.
kuus kuus · · Steamboat Springs · Joined Sep 2007 · Points: 535

For a little info on the BD Spinner Leash, and good info on umbilicals in general check out:

blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562
Kevin Craig wrote:I replaced the stock 'biners on my BD spinner tether with the Metolius FS mini-biners.
Hey Kevin. Mind sharing why you changed to the Metious mini biner?

umbilical biners

left to right

BD flat steel biner is labeled 2Kn (450#) rated on 13mm (1/2"?) tube webbing. (1/2" nylon tube was rated @ 1800# in the old Chouinard catalog) But the system will hold 1500# with the webbing always failing first.

Grivel flat alumnum biner is 3Kn (675#) on 16mm (9/16"?) tube webbing (9/16" tube was rated @ 2800# in the old Chouinard catalog) No clue what teh Grivel system will actually hold.

Metolius mini is 22Kn (4950#) and a good bit bigger physically in every way as well.

By the "feel" of it the Grivel biner has at least twice the gate opening resistance as the BD and easily 3 times the opening resistance of the Metolius mini biner.
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

I don't know about Kevin but I've seen the BD biner's gate reverse at least half a dozen times. A couple on my spinners and also on multiple partners' leashes.

Scotty Nelson · · Boulder · Joined Jan 2002 · Points: 830

I like the BD spinner leashes, but the poor biner design seems like an extremely large oversight. Any speculation on why it wasn't designed with a key lock of some sort? I'm guessing the biner is designed to fail if someone falls on it (even if they don't say so).

bjp · · durango · Joined Feb 2010 · Points: 10

just figured I'd mention that the grivel umbilicals available today come with mini-locking biners, rated to 750kg (1650 lbs), which is way different than the old grivel biner attachment that keeps getting mentioned and shown in this thread. it's about the same size as the metolius fs that kevin said he's attached to his spinner (but, of course, not as strong), with the + or - (different strokes for different folks) of the locking aspect.

I love mine. I don't miss the swivel that's included on a spinner. YMMV.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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