New Crash Pad Company

Yacov wrote:Top of the line open-cell foam for a 3X5X5 is roughly $35. Closed cell is a little more. Makes you wonder why pads cost so much. I'm thinking of doing two lines. All foam and air/foam. The idea being all foam for an economically driven climber who wants a classic quality pad. The air/foam would be a compressible pad so transport would be easier and that you could take on a flight. I'm going to work on some ideas this weekend.

Is that 3" x 5' x 5'? Remember you would want a combination of closed and open cell. Plus fabric over that. Plus a suspension system. Plus hours worked. Plus profit (I highly doubt you will pay yourself how much most sewing companies would pay their workers). Plus shipping.

JoolerMcG wrote: Is that 3" x 5' x 5'? Remember you would want a combination of closed and open cell. Plus fabric over that. Plus a suspension system. Plus hours worked. Plus profit (I highly doubt you will pay yourself how much most sewing companies would pay their workers). Plus shipping.

No doubt there's not a lot of profit room if you want to keep it affordable. I'm going to play with some numbers this weekend. It's definitely not an endeavor to rake in the dough, just something that would be giving back to the climbing community. We have in house foam cutting/ordering, sewing and shipping. It's more about the design parameters and getting the cover material. I don't think we stock durable enough material right now.

As far as Flashed: I'm curious what's the consensus on these. There's a lot of features on these and they are way expensive. Anyone have a lot of experience. They look pretty sweet and I've never used one or seen them in stores.

Yacov wrote: No doubt there's not a lot of profit room if you want to keep it affordable. I'm going to play with some numbers this weekend. It's definitely not an endeavor to rake in the dough, just something that would be giving back to the climbing community. We have in house foam cutting/ordering, sewing and shipping. It's more about the design parameters and getting the cover material. I don't think we stock durable enough material right now. As far as Flashed: I'm curious what's the consensus on these. There's a lot of features on these and they are way expensive. Anyone have a lot of experience. They look pretty sweet and I've never used one or seen them in stores.

Flashed is a Canadian company, you'll see them a lot on the west coast (of Canada), though I THINK Trango is their supplier to the states. Friends of mine have a range of their pads (I'm an Organic user, sorry Flashed ;) ), and have used both their AIR pads and their foam ones. The foam, I find, is quite soft compared to some other companies. Not TOO soft, but definitely could be firmer. The AIR technology is pretty cool. Makes the pad feel firm when compressed rapidly (hard/high falls) and soft when compressed slowly (lower, lighter falls).

A few drawbacks of the AIR technology. Its heavy compared to the foam pads...crazy eh? Also, once compressed it takes 24hrs to decompress. Therefore its great for flying, but sucks if you just want a bit of space for a road trip (assuming you want to climb asap). Thats all I know about it, sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Good luck!

Here bud, one more thing. Have a look at this :)

revolutionclimbing.blogspot…

I like the voodoo pad for the soft velvet (makes a soft bed and grippy landing). The bittersweet pad is large but not very cusiony. I remember a friend of mine making a pad and said it ended up costing him twice what a commercially made pad would have PLUS TONS OF TIME! Hey man, Just Do It. What do you think everyone told Yvon Chounard, Thompkins and Hap, Kelty and others when they said "Hey what do you think about this?"

JoolerMcG - Thanks so much for the info. The link was inspiring and what you said about the air pad re-inflating slowly is helpful. The system I have in mind should have that fixed. I'm astonished it's heavy. It looks like the next step in pad technology is going to be air, which I'm kind of happy about. Now to see if we can make it affordable.

Thanks again.

Mike Anderson wrote:I agree that this is a long shot, but I think a real innovation would be some form of inflatable crashpad that could be packed into a smaller space than traditional crashpads. This would make airline travle much easier, and encourage carpooling, as well as make long approaches easier. The tecnhical challenges would be remote inflation, getting the pressure right and absorbing the impacts without rupturing. It would be a great undergrad Senior Design project or Master's thesis for an engineering design student.

I recall reading about this idea years ago. Not sure how much it cost back then, you would definitely have to adjust it for inflation. [rimshot!]

I think that most boulderers are going to want a sturdy foam comparable to organic. Sure its hard when its brand new, but give it a few months and its virtually perfect. The top layer that Organic uses is great for eliminating the gap in the hinge. Straps and belt buckle that aren't cheap but are based on a backpack model is key. Being able to strap various pads together (for carrying and arranging together) can be done better. No one is doing this right now. Of course METAL BUCKLES that are easy to use. The organic ones are small, the flashed ones and BD ones are stupid hard to use. Plastic buckles have no place for the type of use that a normal pad goes through. The only company that has gotten this right so far is Mad Rock. Some sort of extra padding/heavy material that will keep the edges of the pad from ripping (BD Mondo does this right now). Point is to have the best foam, a comfy adaptive carrying system, and durability. Ignore the other bells and whistles (atleast for the time being).

tcamillieri wrote:I think that most boulderers are going to want a sturdy foam comparable to organic. Sure its hard when its brand new, but give it a few months and its virtually perfect. The top layer that Organic uses is great for eliminating the gap in the hinge. Straps and belt buckle that aren't cheap but are based on a backpack model is key. Being able to strap various pads together (for carrying and arranging together) can be done better. No one is doing this right now. Of course METAL BUCKLES that are easy to use. The organic ones are small, the flashed ones and BD ones are stupid hard to use. Plastic buckles have no place for the type of use that a normal pad goes through. The only company that has gotten this right so far is Mad Rock. Some sort of extra padding/heavy material that will keep the edges of the pad from ripping (BD Mondo does this right now). Point is to have the best foam, a comfy adaptive carrying system, and durability. Ignore the other bells and whistles (atleast for the time being).

I find the Flashed buckles are way easier to use than the Organic buckles...

Another thing to realize is that people have a number of different uses/desires in their crash-pads.

For example my favorite pad that I have owned is the Bittersweet Doublewide (they are currently out of business). The reason is that it covers a huge chunk of space, allows for me to use it in multiple ways, and has the features that I want.

The important thing to note is that the features I like are features that others may or may not find important. For example I like having the ability to stuff a bunch of stuff into my pad when I carry it, however others hate that. However the most important thing is how well it protects you when you climb.

I think the market is well beyond just having a simple cheap pad. There are already several pads out there in the ~$125 price range and they mainly target people that have little experience Bouldering. While it is always nice to save a little $$, buying a product that doesn't meet your needs is not exactly ideal and if you are bouldering a lot, spending an extra $50 for something to work better doesn't seem like a lot.

I see people using crash-pads the same way skiers use skis: you have a quiver/variety of pads for different uses. Some pads for an easy day out with flat-landings, pads for big falls, pads that are better for hiking in, pads to group together with friends to make nice landing areas. Maybe not that extreme but having a couple types of pads is a possibility.

Here are all the companies that I know of producing crash pads:

- Organic
- Flashed
- Revolution
- Asana
- Black Diamond
- Metolius
- Mad Rock
- Misty Mountain
- VooDoo
- So ill (Organic makes them)
- Red Chili

Seems like a relatively crowded marketplace. You might be better experimenting with a really high-quality but reasonably priced pad. For example I find this pad to be awesome looking but very expensive: asanaclimbing.com/KJSignatu…

not climbin' much anymore wrote:http://www.asanaclimbing.com/KJSignaturePad.htm $350 for a crash pad...f!#$*' @. Yeah, a high quality, low cost pad would be cool. Wow, they are really proud of their gear. Hmmmm...I wonder if I could get a p/bro-deal on that Asana pad?

CHeck out the AIR Flashed pad, something like $479. CRAAAAAZY.

If you guys think I'm a dick, just wait until Mr. Reality comes to visit.

You're attempting to enter a marketplace with 8-12 competitors, who all have first mover, advertising, name recognition, sourcing, design, scale, and distribution channel advantages ranging from slight to extreme. All while producing a commodity good where aside from Mike's air cushioned example, there is no innovation to be done and competition is won on price point and distribution channel advantages. Most kids will buy whatever's the best deal in the local shop.

There's a reason the only ones who've made pads for very long also make and sell an extensive product line outside pads.

But if you just have a sunny enough disposition, keep your chin up, and BELIEVE, you too can show all those mean old dickheads like WillS how to WIN in the business world. And all while doing something that is a big contribution to society, almost as important as curing cancer.

Thanks for the chuckles, the butthurtz is pure comedy gold.

JoolerMcG wrote: I find the Flashed buckles are way easier to use than the Organic buckles...

Totally disagree. I think the Flashed buckles are terrible . Climbing mag seems to agree with me:

"This gives it a huge gear-carrying capacity and spares the harsh taco-style bending of the foam, but makes it one of the most time-consuming pads to pack, a problem exacerbated by fiddly D-ring buckles." climbing.com/print/equipmen…

The opening is very small on these buckles and when the webbing begins to fray it is a pain to cinch it through there.... The organic buckles aren't great, but the opening is larger and easier to use than the Flashed. My favorite is still the Mad Rock buckles. Compare for yourself:
Mad Rock Buckle

Flashed Buckle

tcamillieri wrote: Totally disagree. I think the Flashed buckles are terrible . Climbing mag seems to agree with me: "This gives it a huge gear-carrying capacity and spares the harsh taco-style bending of the foam, but makes it one of the most time-consuming pads to pack, a problem exacerbated by fiddly D-ring buckles." climbing.com/print/equipmen… The opening is very small on these buckles and when the webbing begins to fray it is a pain to cinch it through there.... The organic buckles aren't great, but the opening is larger and easier to use than the Flashed. My favorite is still the Mad Rock. Compare for yourself:

Shame the rest of any Madrock pad is trash ;)

i agree, I hate flashed buckles. I don't care too much for the organic ones either.I think metolius buckles are the best in the business though. I'm in the process of replacing the ones on my organic pad with them and then it will be perfect

I love the buckles on the flashed pads, a bit fiddly to use the first time but it grew on me, mad rock buckles also good but the foam is awful.. Flashed foam is a tiny bit too soft to the touch, but after four years of heavy use still catches like a firmer pad..

What ever happened to plastic bukles on crash pads. I have never liked the metal buckles on crash pads.

Just leave enoungh room so you can replace the buckles easly.

Cheap Big Fat 12" Pads for Climbing Gyms that don't cost $500.

Plastic buckles get stepped on and landed on, and they break. Metal buckles are a much better idea.

Yakov - seems like you have access to all the materials and equipment you might need. Make a few pads for you and your friends (and maybe one for me....), see how they turn out and how well they last. If you can make a good pad, and enjoyed the process of doing it, then go for it. You probably won't get rich, but you might find it is something you love to do.

Yakov, I primarily climb trad, but I do boulder occasionally. I have a Metolius pad, which folds in two on a bevel and has a combination of dense close cell on top with less dense open cell on bottom. The metolius buckles are a lot like the Mad Rock ones, and they seem like a good design.

A secondary feature that I like in a pad is the ability to turn it into a couch, functioning like a giant crazy creek. Its not important enough to sacrifice function for, but its a nice add-on to sweeten the deal.

Air pads are already on the market.
mec.ca/Products/product_det…

Flashed makes an air pad check out the Flashed Samurai and the Ronin...super heavy pads but the baffles come out for easy packing for flights and small cars. Landing on the airpads is more like landing on a water bed.

I prefer Asana pads. Best landing surface i`ve felt