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Single rope and lightweight rap line

Original Post
Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Hi Folks,

I would like to try climbing with a single rope and a lightweight rap line. Some questions:

If I have a dynamic single rope, and a static rap line, should the rap line be longer to accommodate the dynamic rope stretch? If so, how much longer?

Are there any knots that are particularly well suited to joining two ropes with different characteristics/diameters? (Let the debate begin...)

Is it best to set up this kind of system like a standard two-rope rappel, with the joined ropes passed through the anchor, and the knot on the pull side, or is it best to use one of the techniques for rapping on a single strand, for example, the way you would rap with a Gri Gri or similar?

Ideas about lightweight tap line options, diameters, availability?

OK, that's all for now.

Thanks,

Bruno

NickinCO · · colorado · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 155

The search feature is your friend...

This was just brought up-

mountainproject.com/v/gener…

John mac · · Boulder, CO · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 105

You would want to set up your wrap like you would for a gri gri and use the light line just to pull the rope.

Keep in mind that this system is a nightmare if the anchor is over the lip or if the rap is less than vertical. I lugged a 70m "rip cord" all the way to meteora greece just to have a tangeled mess and ended up having to rap down with another party.

earl mcalister · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 241

I've been using a 7 mm X 60 m static rope as a tag line the last two years. As you suspect, it's nice to have a light line for rappeling. I can backpack it on multipitch routes and it interferes very little when leading, usually only in tight squeezes.

The tag line doesn't stretch like a dynamic lead rope, but I've never been on a rope stretcher rappel where it mattered yet. One thing to keep in mind with a static line when rappelling is that if you don't rappel smoothly and slowly, keeping a tighter grip on the tag line than the lead line, the knot will slowly slide away from the rap anchor due to the stretching of the dynamic rope. I usually rappel with one rope in each hand, keeping a tighter grip on the tag line to alleviate this problem and the knot stays put.

I typically use an overhand to join the ropes. I've read that the overhand knot can slip on ropes of different diameters, but I've rappeled with ropes from 9.2 to 11.0 mm and never had problems with the knot slipping, even a little. If you dress it well it will stay put, at least with my 7 mm tag line. I've used the biner break method on single pitch routes with partner's tag lines but I would never use it on multi pitch rappels. Too much to snag for my taste.

In terms of setting up the ropes at the rappel, on single pitch routes I usually use the tag line as the pull rope. On multipitch rappels I alternate between pulling the lead line and the tagline unless I feel that the ropes have a high chance of getting snagged, in which case I set up to pull the lead rope so I can have it to lead back up and retrieve the stuck tag line. My 7 mm line is rated plenty strong for rappels (the knot would technically fail first) so I'm comfortable with having it through the anchor.

In terms of availability, I bought a full spool of 7 mm cord which happened to be 60 m. I think it is edelweiss cord. If you wanted more than 60 m of tagline you might have to go with a smaller diameter, but I haven't looked into it much. Taglines are the shit for their weight and volume. They tangle and become knotted much more easily than single ropes, especially when new, but with experience you can figure out how to avoid some of it. The biggest downside to a light tagline is if your lead line gets snagged and you have to lead to get your rope back you can be in a dangerous situation. Just be careful, or if you're worried about it use a half or twin rope.

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

You could always buy a double rope. On MP stuff I usually climb on a 9.4 to 9.8 and tag an 8.3 double along for rapping. It's easier to pull than a 7mil line, you can rap on it so you don't have to mess with the single line bullshit, and you can lead on it if you absolutely have to.

Later when you can afford it, buy another 8.3 and you have doubles. For some reason a lot of people don't like using doubles but I think it's great.

coldfinger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 55

Good topic on this at Cascade Climbers, been using a Sterling Nano 50m to climb, with either a Beal Rando 30m or a 5mm Mammut ProCord 30m as the pullcord.

Lots of great advice:

Linky

Bryan G · · June Lake, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 6,167

I use a 10.2 and a 8.2 a lot of the times. To tie them together I mostly use an EDK or sometimes a double fishermans (with the tails exiting the knot together, not sure what it's called). I always like to have the bottom strand be the tag line, so that the smaller diameter rope has to roll over the large diameter rope.

So in both of these photos, you'd want the red rope to be your tag line and the green rope to be your lead line.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:…

I've also used my friends 8mm static line with the EDK and it worked just the same, so I don't think a difference in diameter really affects the performance of the knot. If you do go smaller than that though, you'll probably want to use a single-strand rappel method. Trusting your life to a 7mm cord is scary as shit. Especially when you have to swing around a little to free some stuck ropes.

coldfinger · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 55

WITH THE EDK OR ANY FLAT KNOT MAKE SURE YOU USE WAY MORE TAIL THAN PICTURED!!!!!!!

EDK testing

EMT · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 205

Just remember it saves you nothing if I gets caught up and you have to relead the pitch to free it.

I think of it as a trade off. I could use a ultralight belay beaner but I would lose so much in efficacy with each pull that its not saving me anything, but costing me a ton more energy.

Can be the same with the ropes, just have to strike the right balance.

Portwood · · Your moms house last night · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 45

I use 200ft of 7mm Procord. And pair it with a 65m 9.something or a 8.5 half rope for ultra light alpine bids. Excellent setup and allows you to haul a pack for chimneys and crux pitches. I have used it on rope stretchers and they pair well (65m dynamic and 200ft static). I just tie a standard double fisherman’s with plenty of tail. Wear it as a rope pack, put it in your pack or just tow it behind you. Great system if you have weighted the pros and cons of a double/twin or tagline and that's what you want for your adventures then GET SOME!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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