Do you really need a fancy haul device?

I'm surprised this hasn't been covered directly...I didn't see it on MP.

Why spend the dough on a mini or protraxion, wall hauler, etc? I'm new to big wall climbing, but it seems to me that you can set up a 1:1 system with two ascenders (which you already have) and a $20 pulley. Maybe doing it this way is more complicated, dangerous, time-consuming than I realize?

Haven't done any walls, but i've practiced hauling like that. Works fine. You can rig a 2:1 this way using a "ratchet" setup (2 extra pulleys and an extra length of cord), but if you need to do a 3:1 you'll need another ascender and 2 more pulleys or one combo device and 1 pulley.

Hey Aaron, yeah you can do that but its all about time and ease with the haulers vs the pulley jumar thing. I also do a "space haul" most of the time (tie in with like 20 ft of rope and let gravity and momentum do the work) and use both jugs to get back up the rope and repeat. just my thoughts...

Kurt Burt

aaron hope wrote:I'm surprised this hasn't been covered directly...I didn't see it on MP. Why spend the dough on a mini or protraxion, wall hauler, etc? I'm new to big wall climbing, but it seems to me that you can set up a 1:1 system with two ascenders (which you already have) and a $20 pulley. Maybe doing it this way is more complicated, dangerous, time-consuming than I realize?

Yes, you do need a fancy device. If you do a wall of any length, you will want something that is simple, efficient, and effective. I'd choose the protraxion.

After sketching your way up a terrifying aid pitch on the third day of your harrowing ascent of El Cap, the last thing you want to do is mess with a jingus, cheap, haul set up. It's better to make hauling as easy and simple as possible, because it's the most taxing part of climbing big walls.

You can do it, and you should be comfortable enough with gear and rigging to do it quickly. But two ascenders take up more space in the system, they aren't quite as efficient (the upside down ascender can shift around, wasting motion), you can't get the bag quite as close to the anchor point as with a wall hauler and set up time is a little longer. None of this makes a significant difference on one pitch, but by the time you get to pitch #30 or so of the Nose the time and effort saved with a wall hauler might start to look more significant.

Jay Knower wrote: After sketching your way up a terrifying aid pitch on the third day of your harrowing ascent of El Cap, the last thing you want to do is mess with a jingus, cheap, haul set up. It's better to make hauling as easy and simple as possible, because it's the most taxing part of climbing big walls.

Jay - you hit my concern right on the Nose (lame pun intended). Bottom line: it sounds like an ascender set-up works, but I'll hate my cheap a$$ self after 30 pitches.

Kurt - Good point about space hauling also...I'll need the jugs...Thanks!

Hey Aaron,

You don't need to spend the money. You can get a pretty cheap pulley and set it up like they used to before these self locking pulleys came about. In doing this though you have some disadvantages. The big one is that you can't space haul. If you are unfamiliar with this, you can read about it on the forums here or supertopo. Always make sure that you can space haul. You must be near the weight of the bags or lighter. If you try to space haul near the top where the bags are really light, you will fall way too fast. You can always weight the bags a few times in a body haul set up before you commit to space hauling. Basically though, you tie yourself a "leash" with the lead line to the anchor. You can then detach from the anchor and counterweight the bags. Now you can make each movement the length of the leash you've tied (maybe 20 ft or so). Once the leash is under tension, jug back up the haul line and repeat. The advantage to this is that you don't have to make nearly as many movements, the hauling goes much faster, and also its easier. This is because getting the pulley turning is the most difficult part due to static friction and you don't have to do this as often while you are space hauling vs body hauling.

I bet you could figure out a way to set this system up with a simple pulley. It may be a bit more dangerous though because if something were to go wrong you wouldn't be right there to fix it. You would need a basic ascender in addition to two handled ascenders and a pulley. You would have to be able to clip some weight to the basic ascender though or else it is going to get sucked up into the pulley. Water bottle or part of the rack works great. But by the time you have all this stuff it may add up in weight. Also, once its all said and done you will be close to the cost of a mini traxion.

The most common way to haul with a simple pulley and an ascender is by body hauling. Set up the simple pulley with an ascender. Then clip the second ascender to your belay loop. Last step is to tie into the anchor. Do this so you can't be any further than arms reach. I use a daisy for this and use the lead line as my back up. Then make the basic motion of pulling up towards the pulley and sitting on the ascender attached to you. You can girth hitch a sling to the pulley and keep it in your mouth so that you don't have to manually move the ascender up towards the pulley each time.

Bottom line is that the mini, pro, wall hauler, kong etc. all give peace of mind while you're space hauling since there is less that can go wrong when compared to an improvised system. Make sure that if you do buy a simple pulley take a look at the efficiency. Petzl publishes this information on their website. It will be worth it. I've had to haul on a tiny tiny 1/2" pulley via body hauling and it was back breaking. My guess is that it was due to the inefficiency of the damn thing.

Hope all this helps. If you need any of this clarified shoot me a PM.

Greg

The simple solution is to get a large diameter pulley and use your body as a counter-weight. There's no need to waste a bunch of your $!

omg, definitely go with a specialized hauling device if you plan on doing big walls. i didn't read any of the other members responses, however, i'm sure they covered the versatility, convenience, and improvisational advantages of incorporating a specialized device into your system.

teeth and cams, combined with an outer plate capable of making system adjustments while your rig is clipped to the hauling point, makes life sooo much easier.

and if you're lite weight and soloing, rapping off the cammed teeth (load side) will be a less of a face melting worry.

so many other reason as well IMO but i really want to destroy this grilled cheese i made so... g'luck

No.

It's nice to have a nicer hauler (kong roll block, petzl traxion, rock exotica wall hauler, etc...), but certainly not necessary. When I did Leaning Tower, we didn't even bring a pulley. Light bag (2 day wall) and used my grigri and an inverted ascender. Worked fine and fast.

bring less stuff and it's casual.

or get a prusik minding pulley:

rockexotica.com/products/pu…

Rock exotica makes some nice pulleys.

also, for only $50, the classic wall-hauler:

rockexotica.com/products/ot…

Bonus of not having a fancy pulley is a fatter wallet and a lighter load to haul during your leads.

Disclaimer: I use a Protraxion, and wouldn't do a wall w/o it.

You will need to buy an expensive pulley if you are hauling grade VI loads. A small diameter pulley will seriously diminish your hauling efficiency. You could probably get a used protrax or wall hauler for the same price as a nice pulley.

Sirius wrote:Bonus of not having a fancy pulley is a fatter wallet

when it comes to the safety of you and your party, fork out the dough and go big. climbing is the last thing you should cut corners on IMO. however, if money is tight, i suggest a college degree

Spyder wrote: however, if money is tight, i suggest a college degree

really??

forbes.com/2010/12/16/educa…

students need to be realistic about their educational pursuits. for example, if you love pottery, for god's sake, don't get a BA in it. have a backup plan! furthermore, the mushroom effect of "for profit" colleges and the roll they play indebting our nations youth is to blame perhaps too, but not solely. students needs to READ and UNDERSTAND the terms of their repayment terms and obligations.

i don't know ONE person, carrying a practical degree, from an accredited institution of learning, that is unemployed, or otherwise harmed or burdened by their education.

Spyder wrote: i don't know ONE person, carrying a practical degree, from an accredited institution of learning, that is unemployed, or otherwise harmed or burdened by their education.

don't get out much then?

No. You do not need and should not purchase a specialized wall hauling device.

A large diameter wheel pulley and a set of ascenders does the job just as well and it is safer.

Anything else is just burning money.

Yarp wrote: don't get out much then?

maybe he knows more than just the one

jack roberts wrote:No. A large diameter wheel pulley and a set of ascenders does the job just as well and it is safer. Anything else is just burning money.

I think it can do it better. Most wall haulers have a pathetically small shieve which makes life much harder than it needs to be. I used to be a believer in the Protraxion until I found a better way.

Do your homework, there is lot's of good info out there but mostly just opinions on this site.

BTW the key factor in setting up a let's call it "old school" hauler is getting the inverted cam at the proper distance and orientation from the pulley. Also, don't skimp on the shieve...get a good one , the bigger the better.