T-Wall or Sandrock?

What would be a better area for a beginning trad leader? I've been told that T-wall is no place to do your first trad lead. Looking to start learning to place gear and start trading leads w/my climbing partner. I lead sport up to 5.11b, been cleaning gear for the past 3 years I have a good idea of what a and bad placement look like.

I did my first trad lead at T wall. There are some moderate routes there that are great for learning. I think my first route on lead was Jaywalker.

I would second T wall. As a new leader I feel pretty comfortable there, especially in the cracks as the protection is abundant and straightforward, also there are several routes in the 5.7/8 range that are quite fun. Two bolt top anchors are nice too.

T-Wall

If anything, Sandrock is a redneck pile...and the T-Wall is gorgeous. Sunny, great rock, and not packed with retards (at least during the week)...make this place way better than Sandrock IMO.

I've not been to Sandrock, but have heard more negative things about it than about any other southern crag. T-wall definitely has a scattering of good 5.7s for the beginning trad leader, however. Go to T-wall. One of the best crags in the nation.

+1 for Twall.

And instead of Sandrock, next time you are in that area go to Jamestown. Yum Yum Tree is a great 5.7 trad lead and no lines like Sandrock.

I feel like T-wall takes gear better than Sand Rock also. The rock at Sand Rock is often conglomerated and takes more effort to find placements, at t-wall you can pretty much plug and chug as the cracks are much smoother inside. Most of the easier cracks tend to eat gear.

I would add.
SCREAMING LOUDY.
Do not go to SandRock.
unless you like to camp next to used comdoms.Walk over broken bottles like a gravel path. and stare at racial slurs and graffiti all day.
The place is a TURD. It is loved by few and hated by many.
There are much better crags in AL. GA. and TN.
I personally have never been to TWall. but they say it is the jam.
Someone pass the toast.
Your choice should be clear.
T Wall

T-Wall is the place to do your first trad lead! Plenty of classic, well-protected climbs in the 5.7 - 5.8 range.

Also, on average the folks you'll run into at T-Wall will have more knowledge about climbing on gear. So friends you make there will be able to teach you much more.

T-Wall. Absolutely. 100%.

I think it depends--T wall is crack climbing. If you have a gym/sport background you may feel more comfortable with first leads at low grade juggy stuff at sandrock such as Standard Route or Knob Wall. As I recall you can protect Knob with just slung chickenheads. Sandrock is certainly an unaesthetic experience compared to T-wall I must agree.

Steele is a nice location for the beginning leader as well....an Alabama option.

But yes, The TWall over SR.

That's a bummer to hear these things about Sand Rock. I know there is an effort underway, led by an affluent climber turned benefactor, to add a lot of real estate to Sand Rock complete with mountain biking trails and basically clean the place up. His vision is to make it the premier destination in the South. I don't know how much the "turd" can be polished, but knowing this guy, it will be polished as much as possible.

BTW, whoever told you T-Wall was no place for a first trad lead doesn't know whay they are talking about, so you should stop seeking their advice.

Mike Anderson wrote:BTW, whoever told you T-Wall was no place for a first trad lead doesn't know whay they are talking about, so you should stop seeking their advice.

+1

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I live in South Florida, and I've been to Sandrock. Compared to where I live Sandrock is the cat's ass. It definitely has a long way to go when you compare it to...well....just about everywhere else. When you compare it to the gyms I have to climb at it's great.

I think I'm gonna go to T-wall. How's the weather in early March? As long as it doesn't rain me and my friends are there.

TWall. There is a 5.5, some short 5.7s

March is fine. People climb there even now in January.

Peter Pitocchi wrote:I think it depends--T wall is crack climbing. If you have a gym/sport background you may feel more comfortable with first leads at low grade juggy stuff at sandrock such as Standard Route or Knob Wall. As I recall you can protect Knob with just slung chickenheads. Sandrock is certainly an unaesthetic experience compared to T-wall I must agree.

I don't think the gym I consider my "home" has many holds that would be considered "juggy" lol. If they have more maybe they should put them out.

Sandrock is not a great place for any first experience. Unfortunately, a lot of people have trashed it. :(

T-Wall!

Mike Anderson wrote:That's a bummer to hear these things about Sand Rock. I know there is an effort underway, led by an affluent climber turned benefactor, to add a lot of real estate to Sand Rock complete with mountain biking trails and basically clean the place up. His vision is to make it the premier destination in the South. I don't know how much the "turd" can be polished, but knowing this guy, it will be polished as much as possible.

Mike, are you talking about Clay? I know he was working hard on the ideas you mentioned, but the last I heard, he'd gotten pretty well shut down by the county, which has its own improvement plans and doesn't want his help or his land. It's a damn shame.

I feel like I'm always the sole guy who stands up for Sand Rock, but really, it's not nearly as bad as most people make it out to be -- especially in the last few months as the county has started keeping the place cleaner and quieter. Of course, it's not even in the same league as T-Wall, but Sand Rock does have some outstanding routes like Comfortably Numb. I remember talking to Rich Gottlieb when I was up in New York a while back and hearing him enthuse about Sand Rock and how gassed he was to climb there again during a recent trip down south. Gave me a new appreciation for the place.

Mike Anderson wrote:BTW, whoever told you T-Wall was no place for a first trad lead doesn't know whay they are talking about, so you should stop seeking their advice.

Yeah, I won't argue with you on that, especially considering that the OP is a 5.11 sport climber and is not totally new to trad concepts. On the other hand, for a climber that's a true trad beginner and/or not a pretty strong climber, I'd be uneasy about putting them on most T-Wall 5.7s for a first lead; those routes aren't routine romps for the grade.

JL

Yes, I was talking about Clay, and I haven't spoken to him since last April. At the time, the county was being a PITA, so maybe things have changed, which would be a serious bummer.