Double Up or Expand?

Hey guys!

I know everyone hates the "what should I add to my rack" threads. But this one is different. It is more of a broader question: When you have a full rack of say C4s (so .4-4) do you begin to double up or expand with smaller cams, or pieces from another manufacturer to full in gaps?

If you don't have any smaller cams than .4, you'll probably want that next.

Thats what I was thinking.

Any recomended brands/sizes for mostly Socal and Joshua tree?

Good question I'm in the same predicament. I leaning towards something different. My c4 aren't a perfect fit for everything I climb. Sometimes sandstone sometimes granite. The .4 is my smallest and any thing smaller just doesn't seem stable or safe for soft sandstone. Maybe a three lobe design or single axle. Not sure.

After I had a full set of BDs I added a set of Metolious TCU's 00-3. Then instead of doubling up the BDs I added Metolious Master/Powercams 4 - 7. I find that the slight size difference between BD and Metolious gives you more options than just one brand. Don't get me wrong though I love BD and eventually did double up my 1, 2, & 3. I primarily climbed at Jtree and Red Rocks with this rack and I had no problem with the smaller pieces holding in Red Rock sandstone or in the tree.

Hey Jace! Remember when we went to the gym a while back?

As for your question I was in the same scenario for a while. Currently I have .4-4 C4's with doubles on .5-2 and the 1 and 2 c3's as well as an orange tcu. Ofcourse I have a set of nuts too.

Like always the answer just depends. The smaller cams definately come in handy. Remember also that nuts work great for a lot of small placements. The doubles are nice when you are doing big walls, aid, or need them for multi-pitch anchors.

Personally I feel that mixing brands only for the sake of "filling in the gaps" is not very worth while. C4's overlap anyway and have a broad expansion range. I wouldn't say to avoid other brands though. My new C4's are of noticeably lower quality. But I do not want to start a debate about Black Diamond and where they make their stuff. I can say that I love my TCU though.

Overall I would start by getting some smaller cams. You could even double up on smaller nuts if you wanted

Think of your last 20 pitches. If you can't do that then think of your last 5. What pieces were you wishing you had? If it was smaller stuff then get smaller stuff. If it was doubles in hand sizes then get more hand sized pieces. I recommended Wild Country if you are getting more hand sized pieces. Smaller stuff is way too personal for me to give good advice.

Chris thats awesome, nice to talk to you again. Sorry for scaring you with that whipper. As far as BD I pretty much assumed that would end up happening when I heard about the buy-out. A reason I am looking at going for metolious is just because at the lower level (think C3) the metolious ones are cheaper.

Also regarding my question: I guess it would be better asked "What would you do first". And I think, from the rack one of my partners has I need to go with the smaller stuff just because it is more useful in my experience. I am probably going to start doubling up (probably a mix of brands) after I expand a little bit.

I like the advice about getting what you feel like you need from past experience.

I might get a .3 sized cam.

After that, I'd double up on the .4-2 sizes. Personally, I like a mix of brands and tcu's/4cu's in sizes up to .75BD. After that, i like BD cams.

In smaller placements, there are more nuances that make specific brands best for specific placements. sizes 1 and up, BD are the best.

Just my 2 cents.

So 1/2 of my rack is BD from the .3- #3. The "double" aspect of my rack is 4 Metolius TCU's and then a red and yellow Wild Country. The nice aspect of doing in this fashion is the TCU's and WC's have a slightly different range than the BD's which allows me to have a set that slight over/under laps the BD's. Additionally the TCU's and WC have a shallower depth placement than the BD's, especially on the red and yellow WC sizes. The yellow requires a little more than 1/2 of the depth required for a BD #2.

At the very bottom I have 4 micro cams that accomplish somewhat of the same thing. 2 of the old school BD micro cams and two master cams, each one slightly overlapping the other.

Question:

In the small sizes (00-3) what is the difference between Master cams and Powercams.

I am thinking about getting them in the lower sizes to help round out my rack but I have no idea what one I should get. I'm thinking about going to my local gear shop and just playing around with them to see what I like better. Is there anything I should keep in mind for climbing in Josh/ San Diego with either one?

Leaning towards the master cams because the trigger looks easier but not sure.

Thanks

You need smaller sized cams, but to answer your OP..[I mostly climb around SoCal too] so an extra #1 and #2 are great BUT lately I seem to take out my Link Cams as doubles. Their size range is very nice.

Jace Mullen wrote:Question: In the small sizes (00-3) what is the difference between Master cams and Powercams. I am thinking about getting them in the lower sizes to help round out my rack but I have no idea what one I should get. I'm thinking about going to my local gear shop and just playing around with them to see what I like better. Is there anything I should keep in mind for climbing in Josh/ San Diego with either one? Leaning towards the master cams because the trigger looks easier but not sure. Thanks

Huge aspect is the head width. It's much more narrow, so you can still have the ability to get a 4 lobe cam without it being excessively large. Additionally a single stem is nice as well.

That being said your question should be mastercams or TCU's in my opinion. I say a mix of both. I have 00 and 0 in mastercams, then TCU's 1-4. That is matched up with BD's in the same type sizes. This way I have the light 3 lobe TCU's which are great for pods, scars, shallow placements etc, then the 4 lobe BD's on the flip side.