A friendly reminder about rain and Red Rock sandstone, and how the twain do meet.

John Wilder wrote:I agree- my previous post was previous experiences with a few days of rainy weather- its become apparent that this is on a whole other level. The loop road closure due to the flash flood and the sheer quantity of water coming down- please, dont climb on the sandstone until 2011- it'll be better for everyone. Sadly, though, I know that it is likely (actually almost guaranteed) that we will see many routes change in the coming days due to broken holds. Hopefully we wont lose any completely.

+2

When I originally posted on this, it was due to the fact that I had spent three days watching weather models and radar. And seeing indicators from experts that this is the wettest system to hit the southern US in over 10 years. Add to that the large number of people I was seeing both online and visually getting ready to go out there and climb, is why I made the post.

I have already canceled my plans for next week in favor of limestone. The rock out there is at a level of saturation I haven't seen in my 8 years out here.

Let's try and do our best to make sure that our visiting climbers are made aware of this however possible. Bill and I talked a pair today into heading to Jtree instead.

As John said, however, I know that when I head out to hike up there this weekend, I will look and see climbers on the rocks because the sun is out. I just hope that no one gets hurt and that we don't lose a few routes entirely.

I know the guys we were talking to today, had a very hard time grasping that the canyons werent going to be "OK" after a day or two of partial sun and low temps.

A couple of us are going to be dry tooling in RR today in case anyone wants to join in.

Dow Williams wrote:A couple of us are going to be dry tooling in RR today in case anyone wants to join in.

If it's on Dream of Wild Turkeys, I'm in.

sqwirll wrote: If it's on Dream of Wild Turkeys, I'm in.

Gobbler direct...lets do it.

Dow Williams wrote: Gobbler direct...lets do it.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll be able to make it out there. My curiousity got the best of me, so I drove out that way this morning. Highway 159 is closed just west of the campground turnoff. Here are some videos:

Highway 159 underwater just west of the campground.

youtube.com/watch?v=2esByIV…

The creek next to highway 159

youtube.com/watch?v=EI3j4Wk…

Spillway and reservoir

youtube.com/watch?v=OvTaMsH…

Travis,

Thanks for the updates on RR. I'm off to JTree.

Updated report: we hiked in to the Calico this morning encountering some sun but also cloudy skies. Lots of water back in the wash by the Sunny and Steep wall. Both the ground and much of the rock is wet. Although concerned that the rock would be brittle from the rain, we were able to climb, although Sunny and Steep is now 13b (ha ha, just kidding, we didn't bring gear with us).

Just wanted to echo what the locals are saying (we are road trippers and will leave tomorrow for Tucson), the rock is way too wet and with storms coming in Sunday and potentially Wed., Vegas is blown and wont be climbable. Unfortunately on our way out from the recon run, we actually saw climbers on Caustic. Made me sick.

In addition to what John said -

Some of us take to doing trail hikes when it's wet. If you happen to see climbers, please politely pass this subject on. We can work together and help everyone out.

I will be out on the loop over the next few days, and then I am off to J Tree.

A big thanks to everyone who has taken the time to read through this, and to those who are helping to keep the climbers safe and the resource safe as well.

So I went out to the loop today. Can't say as I was too surprised, to see it looking like a weekend. There were climbers on every single wall in Calico.

I spoke to a younger couple at the first pullout, and the response was "I've been climbing sandstone a LONG time, bro" Really? Then why are you getting ready to climb on it 2 days after a week of rain?

An older couple at second pullout at least said if it was too wet, then they were just going to hike.

At least both parties thanked me for the heads up. Not much else we can do.

Then I pull into Sandstone Quarry, and see some idiot on the guide wall placing gear in a crack with water running in it. REALLY??!!

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed that the BLM couldn't even be bothered to put a notice up at the entry station or anything. I mean, I know most people are going to ignore it anyways, but they are supposed to provide education about the area.

So yeah, I don't think I will go back out there tomorrow, it will just piss me off more. I guess we will just have to wait and see how badly the routes are damaged and hope that no one gets injured.

Lesson learned, thankfully with no harm done to the rock.

Went for a nice hike today. Probably saw the same party at Sandstone Quarry. Group of 4. Only a couple sets of folks seen at the 2nd pullout. Surprised to see so few climbers on holiday. Pleasantly surprised.

Ground still damp, standing water in places, some leakage still showing on the rock, and, the flow out of Oak Creek was still apparent on the loop road (folks going so slow over the raging 2" deep water...too funny). Must have been an amazing amount of moisture.

Headin' south to more solid rock...

Cheers, and Merry X-mas!

raws.dri.edu/cgi-bin/rawMAI…

This link is likely posted elsewhere on the Red Rock page, but just in case its not, you will find all the weather data for Red Rock you need (unless its freezing, damn tipping buckets) as this is the Red Rock RAWS station data link through the Western Regional Climate Center. Temps, winds, incoming solar and precip. Enjoy!

TDog wrote:HAHA. Brian your a dope.(folks going so slow over the raging 2" deep water...too funny) 'Cause we all know running water is safe. HYDROPLANING Any hydroplaning tire reduces both braking effectiveness and directional control. Is the water crystal clear and you can see there is no hazard? How much water and at what speed does it become unsafe? You must be one of those Highschool kids hta like to spray water. "Folks, spread the word to all your friends- NO CLIMBING IN RED ROCK for at least a week." Make some fliers and put them on windshields as you drive the loop.

I assure you Brian has contributed more to the climbing community then you can even assume.

Also maybe you should have seen what he saw before jumping to conclusions?

josh

J. Thompson wrote:Also maybe you should have seen what he saw before jumping to conclusions?

Was pretty funny. This HUGE SUV creeping across the raging water (barely got his tires wet) at what must have been 1/4 mile an hour.

I almost pulled to the side and passed 'em. This big SUV holding up a wad of traffic.

Pretty clear water. Post big runoff.

You could tell at the Pine Creek crossing (I think that one), that they'd had a cat in there to scoop all the mud and muck off the road surface. Looked like it'd been pretty deep.

I'll admit to enjoying plowing through water at high speed. Of course, the max speed limit on the loop road ruins any thought of that kinda fun.

Merry Xmas!

I would appreciate it if this thread doesn't spiral into the usual MP flame wars and sniping.

Let's stay on topic please, and try and educate people without bashing anyone.

There is some expected light showers middle of next week. I want to climb somewhere after New Years and was thinking of heading to Red Rocks (mainly climbing 2nd pull out at the Gallery Wall). Would you guys think it would be dry enough to climb January 3-6 or at least January 4 and 5?

Just a quick thanks to the original OP and to the locals that continue the difficult and probably quite frustrating task of convincing visiting climbers that it is in the best interest of everyone not to climb until the rock is dry.

Truthfully, when I visited RR the first time the only indication I had of the concern was from two lines in the Swain guidebook - "Do not climb on wet sandstone! The rock becomes brittle and typically needs 24 hours to dry".

I actually remember reading this when I first got the book, but it struck me as a warning for personal safety not a concern for the rock and the climbing community in general. Over the years as I went back I got a better understanding of the issue, but I still have to admit, that until this thread, I really didn't fully appreciate the length of time it takes things to dry out.

Couple that with the fact that in the North East routes are regularly climbed almost immediately after rain and in some of the more popular locations shit falls off on a regular basis. It's just expected.

So again, your efforts are appreciated and even if may not seem like everyone gets the message, you are getting the word out.

Great post. Thanks.

Hiked out to Juniper Canyon yesterday on a cloudy but rainless monday.

The Rose Tower gully was a barely a trickle. The beginning of Olive Oil felt and looked fine eventhough it does not get as much sun as the rest of the route.

Spoke with two parties coming off the same climb. They had no holds break, nothing was too wet. They were even in sunshine part of the day.

Went back out today to climb Olive Oil. Had sun all day and no weak rock.

Thanks for the positive contributions and comments. I'm glad to know that at least a few people opted to not climb in Red Rock because of it, and that's thanks enough for me - to know that I did something positive for the local area.

I even got a thank you from a guy I ran into while over at Lone Mtn. climbing on some limestone :)

While it's getting dry now in the sunny areas, it is supposed to rain again tomorrow, we will see how it goes. I am really anxious to get back out in the canyons and get off the ground!

But for now we are climbing in Josh and having a great time. Be safe out there!