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A friendly reminder about rain and Red Rock sandstone, and how the twain do meet.

Original Post
Travis Spaulding · · Las Vegas, NV. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 30

I have been seeing a lot of partner request posts for now through late December, and I know that some of you may not be familiar with our local geology.

On the rare times that we have extended rainfall in Vegas, it's really bad for our local sandstone. Desert land, and rock, reaches a saturation point fairly quickly, and the Red Rock sandstone is of a type that becomes very brittle, very quickly, when wet.

If you climb here when the sandstone is brittle, you may snap off a hold or holds and destroy a classic line.

Right now, our forecasts are calling for continuous rainfall through the 23rd, a 2 day break, and then resume on the 26th.

After two or three days of continuous rainfall (we are on day two), then it can take up to a week of dry weather for the sandstone to dry out in very exposed, very sunny areas like the Calico Hills.

The canyons, can take another week to two weeks after rainfall ends to dry out. EDIT: As John has pointed out, if the ground is wet in the area, the rock usually is too.

So if you are planning on climbing in Red Rock right now or in the next couple weeks, please watch the weather closely. You may want to have other areas in mind, such as the limestone in St George, or perhaps J Tree, although right now their weather is mirroring ours (which is why I'm typing this instead of going down there.)

While I am not in any way attempting to tell people "stay away", I would sure hate to see someone get hurt due to broken holds or rockfall, and I think we can all agree that we don't want to ruin any climbs for others :)

Have fun and climb safe! I hope things dry up soon, this weather sucks :-|

Tyson Anderson · · SLC, UT · Joined May 2007 · Points: 126

+1

Also with the colder weather it's going to take a while for everything to dry out

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

+1 and head for Lee Canyon and do some skiing instead in the cold weather coming in.

dan zika · · jax wy · Joined May 2009 · Points: 5

Only bad things can happen when people don't heed the desert warnings
from locals or otherwise. Running it out on easy ground then ping & U R flying thru the sky I was lucky. Others havent been. Don't climb
wet sandstone anywhere R&R or otherwise!!!! There R shit tons of rock in the west get a clue

Shane Norquist · · Anaheim,CA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 30

Good post. I was out their last week and was surprised how damp it was in the shade even though it hadn't rained in days. We approached Crimson Chrysalis and decided not to climb it because the ground looked wet still. It was a heart breaker because it was a perfect day and we were alone. Doing the right thing sucks!!!

Elliott Crooks · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 10

Had an friend climb @ RR 24 hrs after 8 hours heavy rain. 8 cu. ft chunk broke off an overhang-stitches inside & outside cheek, jaw wired. Not pretty. Sandstone not very strong to begin with, & loses 1/3 to half its' strength when saturated. Good warning post.

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Yep, due to the forecast- climbing in Red Rock is out, flight lesson is out, but skiing in Mammoth IS IN!! Woohoo!

Travis Spaulding · · Las Vegas, NV. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 30

Thanks for pointing that out John, I have edited the post slightly to be more accurate.

At this point I am wishing I was a ski type lol. Guess I will just have to go gym rat or wait for this system to pass and head to JTree.

Greg Gavin · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 888

Bah! I've kept a keen eye on the weather for over 3 weeks in hopes of getting down there. Alas, school, and wet weather have thwarted any attempt to climb real rock. Hoping it clears soon!

Shane Norquist · · Anaheim,CA · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 30

Their is always J Tree. You can climb five minutes after the rain stops.

Travis Spaulding · · Las Vegas, NV. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 30

Yeah that sucks Greg :(

I'm kinda stuck too as I can't really afford to go much of anywhere or I would be down in AZ or somewhere right now. Hope you will be able to come and visit us soon!

J. Thompson · · denver, co · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,425

I've seen some sick looking ICE lines up the canyons in the past.

Most have probably never been climbed.

josh

Travis Spaulding · · Las Vegas, NV. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 30

That would actually be cool to see Josh, even if it was just pictures. I don't see the ice up there that often, but I don't look for it much either, ice climbing isn't my bag.

W L · · NEVADASTAN · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 851

Anybody have any rain totals for the West side of Vegas or a weather station in the NCA?

I've been checking the NOAA data from McCarran International and looks pretty insignificant in terms of what has fallen there, but as we all know, these things can vary tremendously.

Thomas Beck · · Las Vegas, Nevada · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,025

Might be a little early for Ice lines to be forming. Nice to see reported 7" at Lee Canyon. Now for a bit more snow up there; I can go backcountry out of bounds.

Meanwhile, for those staying in town, the limestone though perhaps a little friable is not as fragile after a rain as sandstone and there's the crags behind Lone Mountain, The Rodeo Wall, the crags south of Kyle Canyon Road about 6 miles up(Area 51), The Fire Wall - that's pretty hard to get to - and some granite areas about 20 miles south of Boulder City east of US 95 - Keyhole Canyon and Knob Hill.

cassondra l · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 335
wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getob… gets you to recent rainfall and temps in Red Rock
cassondra l · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2008 · Points: 335
forecast.weather.gov/MapCli… gives a nice forecast for RRCNCA. Enlarging the map and clicking on the various canyons and formations gives slightly different forecasts, depending on the location and elevation.
sqwirll · · Las Vegas · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 1,360

3.5" so far and counting since Friday. We're screwed for a while. Time to go skiing.

Travis Spaulding · · Las Vegas, NV. · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 30

Yeah, it's looking like we may be able to get onto the real sunny stuff, maybe Sunday or Monday if we get a little wind with the sun. I'm going to take a walk out to Moderate Mecca Sunday and see what it looks like. Another storm is predicted on Thursday so we will have to wait and see what happens. The canyons are done until sometime in January.

And Cassondra, thanks very much for posting the weather links, they are great. Have them bookmarked for the future.

Jason Halladay · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 15,153
This video posted yesterday shows some pretty good runoff in Red Rock. Wild.
mike moore · · las vegas, nv · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 370

Hey all, I hope everyone takes into consideration the amount of rainfall over the last week in comparison to the last year in total for Las Vegas. It will take at least a week for the sport routes to be fully dry due to the amount of precipitation that has graced Sin City. If you are on a road trip, or local, please use good judgement if you plan on roping up. The sandstone here is fragile; the routes in the calico hills change annually.

As for steeper lines at red rock, the trophy is not super steep and is sopping wet, along with secret 13, sunny and steep, cannabis crag, and all of the calico hills for that matter. Out of boredom I hiked around in the rain yesterday. Again, two days of overcast and intermittent sunshine are not going to dry the routes properly. While lines may look dry on the surface, underneath.......

Anyway, whatever the masses choose, please be responsible and remember, you are responsible. St. George and Mesquite are and hour or so away. The Utah Hills, Woodberry Preserve, Cathedral, VRG, and The Grail are all super limestone areas with a variety of grades and quick approaches, minus The Cathedral.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Nevada
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