Pommel issue with new Nomic / Ergo

Having just purchased new Nomics, I was disturbed to read this...

ColdThistle

Blame Ueli. They send the guy out to product test on the Eiger and he returns 3 hrs later, hands them back the tools and says, "Done. Everyzing ist ok."

"That's not product testing, Ueli. Slow the eF down and get with the program!"

"If Ueli Steck is late, time better slow the fuck down."

"Ueli Steck's Ipod came with a real charger instead of a USB cable."

"Ueli Steck once kicked a baby elephant into puberty."

"Ueli Steck's tears cure cancer - unfortunately he's never cried."

"Ueli Steck doesn't have a chin underneith his beard, he only has another fist." ... I guess that one doesn't work.

Having bought new Ergos and Nomics...plus sold my old Nomics to in part ease the pain of the transiton ...think how happy I am.

But while annoying and certainly limits the tools usefulness (like making it useless) once the pommel is stripped I don't see it as really "dangerous". FUBAR? Oh ya, but dangerous? Not so much unless it causes you to fall off. And I'd guess that could be a real posibility.....

I could it see it being dangerous if you're making big moves on rock, getting pumped, and hanging more and more from the pinky rest - then it snaps off...

Kevin Landolt wrote:I could it see it being dangerous if you're making big moves on rock, getting pumped, and hanging more and more from the pinky rest - then it snaps off...

Looking at the pics Dane posted, I don't think the pommel would snap off outright, but it could rotate to the next groove. And while just a small angle change, when you're at the limit and pumped that certainly could be enough to send you.

Definitely a major design flaw on Petzl's part. Just thinking about the design conceptually, someone should have gone, "duh, no way can we build it like that, the aluminum notches will strip out." My guess is that during product testing they used the same plastic pommel interface design as the previous Nomic, but the plastic notches on it likely stripped from the extra torque put on the new pommel with its serrated metal "spike" strip. So they thought, hey, let's use metal and we're good to go. I can't tell from the pics, but if they went with that thought pattern, they likely just extended the metal from the serrated spike-strip through the plastic pommel. Is that the case, Dane? Definitely poor design.

Dane, have you brought this issue up w/Petzl yet? I'm interested to see how they correct it, because it is definitely going to be an ongoing problem.

I sent Petzl SLC a link to the problem yesterday. But they were talking on the phone about it and had seen the pictures earlier in the morning.

Once stripped the pommel can rotate inward no longer offering any hand protection when you place the tool and it can collapse downward offering less or no support. Both make the tool pretty useless.
But no the pommel doesn't come off it just rotates.

The older design is square cut and has more teeth messed at any one time and they are a full width interface between shaft end and pommel.
There is no slop in this design.

The new design has rounded teeth that mesh loosely (movement in the pommel even when it is bolted down tight) and the steel portion is only half of the meshing surface.

I had figured it would be a metal to metal contact surface (good idea) but over the full surface area not half of it and not loosing the square cut messing "gears" or the multiple gears in contact at once for the trade out of less gears and rounded gears. Some one just wasn't thinking very far on this. I'd suspect an engineer at Petzl that didn't climb ice by the looks of it.

Don't laugh at that suggestion..as it has happened in other brands as well recently.

Erik W wrote:
"Looking at the pics Dane posted, I don't think the pommel would snap off outright, but it could rotate to the next groove. And while just a small angle change, when you're at the limit and pumped that certainly could be enough to send you"

+5

I just had a friend experience this with a grivel matrix ice tool, different story, similar situation... Does not seem to safe to me. Strange thing is I wanted to pick up some nomics and was originally thinkging of the older model just for price, but now I have another reason.

I sold all my aliens, my haulbag, offset nuts, pin-rack, hammer, and wall-climbing ambitions to afford my new set of Nomics (plus another $90 for the hammers). This is bullshit - the real "achilles heel" of a $300 tool that has been around for years. I think it would be horseshit if the pommels were beings stripped after a single season of use,rendering the tool useless - but after a few outtings? I've only climbed once on my set, and the pommels look fine, but I'll be sure to blow a gasket if I examine any degradation after a few more days of use.

- Just emailed Petzl about it. I'm going to call the shop where I bought the tools and ask them to pestor their Petzl rep about it.

No mention of this issue in their sexy ice tool promo vid...

I talked with Rick Vance @ Petzl NA this morning. His year old "new Nomics" don't show the wear my week old Ergos show. None of the R&D tools in climber's hands for the last year have had the same issue. Rick is hunting done serial numbers now looking into the shaft materials to see if that is a partial cause on the failures.

Rick said stripped pommels is a new issue to him and Petzl as of yesterday morning and Daniel's tools. I believe that. Obvious issue...but Petzl will warrenty the broken tools and solve the issue in short order I suspect.

I was just a couple weeks away from buying the new Nomics or perhaps even the Ergos, but this issue is putting a freeze on that purchase, no doubt. I'm sure Petzl will take care of you guys, but I just don't want to buy into a known problem. Hopefully they'll fix it soon.

e-OMC had the new Fusions on sale a bit ago for around $209/ea., I'm guessing they'll do the same at the end of the month again... might have go with those for the season. Step it up Petzl.

Dane wrote:I talked with Rick Vance @ Petzl NA this morning. His year old "new Nomics" don't show the wear my week old Ergos show. None of the R&D tools in climber's hands for the last year have had the same issue. Rick is hunting done serial numbers now looking into the shaft materials to see if that is a partial cause on the failures. Rick said stripped pommels is a new issue to him and Petzl as of yesterday morning and Daniel's tools. I believe that. Obvious issue...but Petzl will warrenty the broken tools and solve the issue in short order I suspect.

Sounds like some "value engineering" at production time. Does Petzl still manufacture in the EU? As BD has discovered, I suspect problems like these are going to become increasingly common as companies continue to offshore and the production plant sees opportunities to increase their margins. If you don't understand the design/use of an item, I'm sure a lot of climbing gear looks over-designed. One of the advantages of employing climbers to actually make climbing gear.

the ergo and nomic are being listed as being made in france

dont blame all those job stealing foreigners for this one

i seem to remember a certain caming device that was manufactured in the USA with quality problems ...

can't remember the exact name ... but i think it had something to do with flying saucers ;)

weird that those damn made in dim sum land BD Fusions don't have this issue =P

Here is a short term fix until Petzl comes up with something better.

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Forgive me but I don't really swing axes... ever. I don't see the mechanism that is causing the wear... and I don't understand how the cord fixes if? Could someone fill me in? Just curiosity...

The cord has nothing to do with the pommel failures and doesn't address those failures in any way.

Adding a umbilical attachment is easy to do while you are adding the additional support to the pommel to keep it from stripping out. A close inspection of the pictures of the problem in the two coldthistle blog posts should give you an idea of what is going wrong and why.

I hardly see how fault should be placed on Ueli Steck! He doesn't manufacture the tools. May have a hand in design, I don't know? And I'm sure he's not the only one testing these products.

But I am wondering how or if this is also a problem with the new Quarks. I have a fellow that is interested in buying my previous generation ones. I've thought of buying the new ones and more than likely the new Nomics. It's making me rethink things. Is there any news or information about issues with the new Quarks? Any reports out there? I haven't found anything so far.

Thanks,
Juan

It is not an issue on the new Quarks..as they have no pommel adjustment.

Thanks Dane for the info. Curiosity though.... I'm assuming (I know, not always the best idea to assume, but...) that because the Nomic and Ergo tools are a high'er performance tool is the reason for the adjustable pommel where as the Quarks do not have that feature? Thanks again!

Juan

Yes and no. The much larger hand support on the Nomic's and Ergo's pommels make them higher performance tools on steep technical ground. Having the pommel adjustable doesn't make them higher performace just more complicated. Adjustable pommels allows one tool to fit more climber's hand size.

Erik W wrote:e-OMC had the new Fusions on sale a bit ago for around $209/ea., I'm guessing they'll do the same at the end of the month again... might have go with those for the season. Step it up Petzl.

For that price I would so be in!!! Someones gotta PM me if that shows up again.