What is the most classic, moderate trade route you have retrobolted?

news flash"their just rocks"

Years ago Bill Robbins called me because he had heard that I was working on his routes.

He was veary thankfull for the work and kinda asked me to look out for his routes.
He said no new bolts and I could do as I like with any rebolting.
Like replaceing pins with bolts ect...

I gota move this weekend, but after that I will be teaching a clinic on the fine art of (edit for tony) REMOVAL OR UNSCREWING OF METAL FROM ROCK and patching. Yes power tools and torches will be part of the class.

This shit has got to stop. tony claimed to have spent two grand on hardware in lcc just this year.

2 grand! i would buy a lot of mexican food with that money.

Willa wrote:I just finished bolting the Casual Route on The Diamond. It took forever! Now you don't have to carry all that trad gear bull shit...SPORT 4 LYFE!!!!!!!!

now your thinkin

markmaguire wrote: now your thinkin

Hey maguire, how about you stfu and let the grown-ups talk.

Willa, you too. As in stfu! Trolling a Northern Utah/Idaho thread about a alpine area in CO certainly activates the sarcasm detector but is pretty weak. Plus, the fact that you are from MD (Maryland - seriously? Is there climbing there?) tells me you have no skin in the game and can be summarily dismissed. Douche. And might I add - Sissymary. Get it?

Bill Huggins wrote: Hey maguire, how about you stfu and let the grown-ups talk.

+1

Welcome to the Golden Age of Convenience Climbing no need to spend years perfecting climbing skills no need to spend hundreds of $ on gear just clip and go.

No I am not from Utah and to be honest I don't even climb that much any more. I mostly come on here to lurk and look at all of the pretty pictures. Just something to do while I drink my morning coffee.

What I gather from reading this post and others like it is that there are a lot more climbers then there used to be ie 10-20 years ago, duh.

What I find disappointing is how many of them would like to turn the outdoors into a gym for the mere convenience of it.

Seems like a lot of today's newer climbers learn in the gym and then when they move outside they don't want to have to adapt. They would rather change the way things are to meet their idea of what climbing should be.

Sad.

CalmAdrenaline wrote:Im willing to donate my time and crowbar.

uhh .... that's my crowbar. And yes, you can use it to pull inappropriate bolts.

Come get your tent.

markmaguire wrote:news flash"their just rocks"

News flash? I got one for you. Grammar!

For everyone else, with all your wonderful opinion - it's best to just stay out of this. It's not about gym climbers, and it's not about convenience. It's about a childish individual drawing as much attention to himself as possible. Unfortunately, he's found a very sensitive spot amongst Wasatch climbers and he's taking full advantage of it.

If you're unfamiliar with Wasatch climbing history and ethics, this thread is probably best left alone. If you'd like to learn more, I suggest doing some research.

The problem is that just ignoring it or tolerating it isn't going to make it go away. The only time the problem has subsided involved a separate issue, overseas travel and jail time. Does anyone have any military connections that might be able to activate an emergency deployment?

There is a solution to this problem. Unfortunately, none of us have figured out exactly what that is, because it isn't reason, logic, severe beatdowns, threats, bolt chopping, or a number of other solutions that have been attempted.

If it goes anything like RMNP we can all brand each other as douche nozzles.
There's a thread on uc.com that's going to be dedicated to this issue - complete with bolt removal coordination, etc. Let's keep out of the proj before things get ugly (they will) or another dozen gym-bred gapers peep up regarding the necessity of bolts next to cracks and convenience anchors.

Clay, nice post in the Timp ice thread. Just a hint about using an alias though: it takes more than one empty post in an unrelated topic to counterbalance the Oct. 26th join date quickly followed by a dozen contributions to "guides adding bolts" and this thread. The rate at which Tony's aliases are multiplying is worrisome. If only one of his personalities wasn't a dong...

If thats the Mark Maguire that I know you better cool your jets bro, this isnt the place or the time.

Price, Ill swing by today though that 4cu is at home. Lets get some shit done this weekend, some climbing and some wrenching *wink*. Seeya in a few hours...

Clay Borne wrote: Sorry Sir Camsalot, I am not Tony.

I was just hoping you'd pass the message along when he "gets back."

Alright "Clay Borne" You sure sound like your either A.) Tony Calderone or B.) a close compadre of Tony Calderone, but I would guess A. Memeber since Oct 26, nice disarming profile photo, similar linguistics to Tony Calderone..

I dont know, but I do want to say this, we all see "Tony Calderone" engraved on the hangers of many retro bolted routes and routes with replaced anchors, which, in my opinion is lame and stinks of ego, but thats beyond the point. Tony has the rep for this kind of stuff since beyond my time so it's very easy to jump on the finger pointing bandwagon, I am guilty as any.

Do I think every unnecessary or unwarranted bolt in all of the Wasatch is the sole doing of Tony? No.

Do I think many of them are? Yes.

We are all seeking answers and action about this because it is getting out of control, it cuts deep when someone with no regard for the history, ethics, or common consensus of the climbing community scars the rock, the nature, and the history of a climb with holes and hardware that seemingly nobody but yourself wants or thinks is necessary.

So I think what we are all getting at is please stop, for the love of god just fucking stop so we can all go climb more instead of bickering about this shit.

I think at this point the Wasatch gorillas have spoken, the West slabs will soon be devoid of rap anchors, use your legs for christ sake, our our predecessors have been walking off for years.

As for the chains on Satans, thats just silly.. they wont last long.

-Dirty

Wow.
He puts his f'in name on his hangers?!
What the. . . .

I feel for you CalmAdrenaline (and others) - you seem to be taking this Tony idiot better than I would ever be able to.
Best of luck with your de-bolting projects.
Tell ya what, I'll buy some of those Tony Calderone hangers from you, grind off the name and use them myself. Hey man, you can make some $$ for your de-bolting efforts. Seriously.

Unacceptable.

These actions, and the community reaction, could result in severe consequences for all. Loss of climbing privileges and closures may result. Lest we forget, bolts are litter and we are fortunate to be able to use them on private and public land. Most of us, definitely me, are hypocrites and place or clip them regularly. Somewhere we must draw the line. To this end, ethics and traditions have been established. This ethos is ever evolving and it is right to question these from time to time. Recent actions by one or more people have flown in the face of this ethos and ignored the will of the community.

These actions are unacceptable to the wider community and should be dealt with as a community. Involving stakeholders beyond climbers could lead to unforeseen consequences. We must address this problem in an open public forum. I am calling for a public meeting and will post up when arrangements are made.

Sincerely, Dave Budge

Please pardon me for stepping across state lines, but this recurring topic seems to affect all of us. A number of folks above have identified the solution: a community gathering to watch the bolts fall out. Said community is usually comprised of the guys/gals that put the route(s) up, if possible, and other respected members of that locale. A consensus based upon the local ethic soon follows.

(Bolts falling out = erasure, not chopping.)

It is an unfortunate reality that some people feel the need to bring the route down to their level, instead of rising to meet the challenge (or staying home). This is frustrating. I've dealt with this several times before . . . eventually, the offending parties give up, because the bolts keep falling out.

jesus

Peace be unto you.

Bolts save but let's not be carried away.

Uh....

Sounds like the bolts were added by a member of the first ascent party, That was worried about people getting hurt.

That being the case, the bolts should stay.

More homework next time?

bsmoot wrote:If Bill Robins were still around, those new bolts on Western Grebe wouldn't have lasted a day.

This is sad.