SHould this person be climbing?

So I was out the other day climbing and noticed a fairly big guy leading. Lets call him climber "a". He was about 5'11 240ish not fat, but definitely big, think NFL linebacker build. Anyways I was kinda scared watching him lead. he made a so so move on a 5.9 line and thought to myself, jeez if that guy fell would the cam hold? I was under the impression cams were tested and rated to a 180 lb person. Would he have pulled his pro if he fell? I talked to him after and said jeez that looked kinda scary. He replied, yeah I usually ice climb.

I replied ICE CLIMB??? aren't you a little big to be ice climbing? He said nah I do just fine and snickered. His second climber "b" said dude he's been climbing forever and been fine. I just walked away.

Do you think, assuming his pro was placed good, he would pop it? Do you really think he should be leading on ice? Not trying to pick on the guy but I was concerned and it got me thinking...

I leave it to you guys, GO.

coryred797 wrote:So I was out the other day climbing and noticed a fairly big guy leading. Lets call him climber "a". He was about 5'11 240ish not fat, but definitely big, think NFL linebacker build. Anyways I was kinda scared watching him lead. he made a so so move on a 5.9 line and thought to myself, jeez if that guy fell would the cam hold? I was under the impression cams were tested and rated to a 180 lb person. Would he have pulled his pro if he fell? I talked to him after and said jeez that looked kinda scary. He replied, yeah I usually ice climb. I replied ICE CLIMB??? aren't you a little big to be ice climbing? He said nah I do just fine and snickered. His second climber "b" said dude he's been climbing forever and been fine. I just walked away. Do you think, assuming his pro was placed good, he would pop it? Do you really think he should be leading on ice? Not trying to pick on the guy but I was concerned and it got me thinking... I leave it to you guys, GO.

What do you believe the weight limit for a climber to be?

Eh, to each his own. Hes big, he climbs. whatever.

You can't be serious that cams are rated to a 180lbs climber. Where on earth did you come up with that??

i would do some research on cam load testing. If it's placed well in good rock, a moose could take a nice lobber and live to tell about it.

I'm hesitant to reply to this... But yes, it would hold. I don't want to sound like a dick, but you really should know this stuff if you're leading. It's not the weight of the guy that matters, it's the force you generate on the piece when you fall. Anyways, let's round his weight off to 1kn (~225 lbs) most micro/aid gear is rated to 2kn, so that would hold him hanging on it without breaking. Free climbing gear is usually 5kn or better for small stuff with medium-large nuts at 10kn. Camalots are rated to 14kn. Your rope limits the max force on a piece to 7-9kn with a static belay, which doesn't happen in reality, so the force would be less than that, especially if there's a bit of rope out.

So he's got nothing to worry about aside from sending his belayer for a wild ride. I hope he was either about equal in size or anchored down. I used to have 30lbs on my partner and could easily lift him a about 5 feet in the air on a big fall. And i'd want some extra friction in the belay device too. Maybe some gloves.

coryred797 wrote: I was under the impression cams were tested and rated to a 180 lb person.

See, statements like this make me think "Should THIS person be climbing?"

Ok, I admit, that's mean, but seriously, if you are going to use this stuff, understand how it works, how its tested, and what all the numbers on the tags actually mean. I think you are referring to the UIAA drop test for dynamic ropes, which uses an 80 kg (176 pound) mass.

In response to the original question: yes, in a massive fall his gear will probably rip out before mine. On the other hand, I will probably break a lot more shit when I hit the ledge than he will. I think you are hugely overreacting, even to the ice climbing part, and I'd imagine they had quite a laugh after you walked away.

As long as that guy doesn't expect an aide peice to catch him he should be alright. Craig Connally, The Mountaineering Guide, says that in a real world fall scenario the most force a climber could ever possibly generate is about 8.5kN.
Most pro is rated to 10 kN. When you go from drop tower test (static system) to a roped belay system (dynamic system) the forces generated are significantly lower. As with any climber you should be concerned with making good placements. Don't assume that just because you weigh much less than the drop tower test weight that you are safer while climbing, and certainly not a safer climber, than someone who weighs more. The security of your protection placements are based on how well they are placed.

Most BD nuts are weighted to 10KN,until you get into under #5's I believe. Cams are 6-14 KN based on size, I'm thinking C4's mostly.

1KN = 225 lbs (roughly)

6KN = ~1350 lbs if I'm thinking correctly.

A 240 lb person would have to undergo an acceleration of 5 gee's or so. That's a pretty extreme fall to start with. That's the kind of fall you moan and ask to be lowered off of.

An anchor can see upwards of a 7KN load under extremes, but I highly doubt you will see close to that on a lead, when you account for dynamic rope stretch, friction on other gear pieces, and the give from the belayer as they lock off.

I don't see him falling being an issue, unless he didn't place gear correctly, which has the same safety issues for everyone. However it sounds like he's been climbing for quite a while. I wouldn't worry at all.

John Dunne

Check out the legendary John Dunne...hovering somewhere around 180 ~ 190, no one was telling him not to climb!

EDIT:Darn Kachoong...just beat me to it.

Im 6'2" and im 225 and probably 230-235 with gear. i have fallen on gear with no problems.

Climbing Partner 220 Took a 15-20' fall on a Number #2 DMM Walnut rated to 9KN. It held but is forever fused in the quartize rock.

2 Weekends ago belaying my buddy at the Red probaly 230lbs fell from 10-12' to 5' on to i thing #1 BD Camalot on sandstone. FF ~.5ish. It Held.

You are talking about a 55lbs different from a 185lbs climber to a 240lbs Climber. If you think that would cause an average 10KN gear to fail then you would be dead right now.

SlowTrad wrote: What scares me is falling on fixed gear, pins specifically, in Eldorado Canyon.

Probably the scariest lead fall I've ever taken.

I'd say go ahead and throw rocks at him. Tell him it's for his own good.

I was climbing at Golden on North Table Mtn on the sport climbs one day when a climber was leading on a trad route nearby. I am sure he had to weigh 300 something and not obviously muscular. I could easily use the term obese. He belayer was about 155.

This was remarkable, and I had to admire his gumption. I didn't admire the drama he was creating with yelling at his belayer and making quite a scene. He was not talking kindly to his belayer.

Give me a break.

Have you ever climbed a pitch with a backpack full of bivy gear, or an aid-rack full of iron?

Dan Godshall wrote:Check out the legendary John Dunne...hovering somewhere around 180 ~ 190, no one was telling him not to climb! EDIT:Darn Kachoong...just beat me to it.

You know, I think he was actually above 200lb, eating meat pies, drinking beers, and still cranking 5.14.

kachoong wrote: You know, I think he was actually above 200lb, eating meat pies, drinking beers, and still cranking 5.14.

The true definition of an athlete.

Adam Winters wrote:...a moose could take a nice lobber and live to tell about it.

ROFLMAO

Adam Winters wrote:i would do some research on cam load testing. If it's placed well in good rock, a moose could take a nice lobber and live to tell about it.

I think it's John Long's Climbing Anchors where he mentions that some of his initial research was done by building an anchor near the ground, hooking it up to a car, and trying to drive off.

Anyone have better recollection?

Dan Godshall wrote:Check out the legendary John Dunne...hovering somewhere around 180 ~ 190, no one was telling him not to climb! EDIT:Darn Kachoong...just beat me to it.

Really??? I am 187, with very little body fat, I hung out with John way back, and he is way bigger than me.

Oh, and I have taken at least thirty falls over 30 feet on trad gear, and have never pulled a piece