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little gear and falling...

Original Post
Kilroywashere! London · · Harrisonburg, Virginia · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 280

got a nice climb i've been looking at recently that i'd like to tackle on lead...problem is theres about a 15' section that only has placements for meager gear. like size 0-00 tcu stuff..i was wondering if anybody had any tips for little gear such as this, would you place and whip on it? its a vertical placement which is nice, but still has me worried as i thought the 0 and 00 are aid pieces.

also any other advice as far as small gear climbing goes would be crazy helpful, this is pushing my lead climbing limit as far as gear goes and could use all the help i can get!
thanks!

Dusty · · Fort Collins · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 210

There is very little error tolerance on the smaller sizes. Just place them well and they should hold some whips.

rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265

add a screamer and double up pieces or try to put in micro nuts or ball nutz

T

Cota · · Bend OR · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 0

ball-nuts, bro, ball-nuts

H BL · · Colorado · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 95

I took about about 10 footer on a #2 bd nut many years ago at the gunks. I was surprised and thought for sure it would pop.

Scott Bennett · · Western North America · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 1,265

If you place them well in good rock, small cams should easily hold falls.

A few tips to convince yourself to go for it:

Place BOMBER gear before the thin section. I don't know how far the ground is, but a 30'er isn't necessarily horrible.

If your climbing a continuous thin crack, place a piece every body-length. Then you'll be on TR half the time and never be facing a significant fall.

If the placements are more intermittent, load them up with multiple pieces, maybe equalize and throw a screamer on the whole mess.

If the crack allows, place small wires. These are usually stronger that the equivalent size TCU.

Go send that rig!
-Scott

no1nprtclr · · Front range Colorado · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 55

took a 30 footer on a #1 Metolius tcu, held just fine. Just need to asses the rock that it's placed in and know your gear placements. If you have that much doubt, before you do your route, find a small crack that you think may be similar in size and bounce on it as though it was aid. that should give you some idea, within reason, as to the ability of holding a fall.

My two pennies.

Juan

CalmAdrenaline · · SL,UT · Joined Jan 2008 · Points: 115

What kind of rock?

Took a 20+ footer onto a 00-000 mastercam offset a few weeks ago in granite...

just make sure its snug, I feel micro cam placements are more secure when they are placed a bit tighter than you would a normal cam.

Kilroywashere! London · · Harrisonburg, Virginia · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 280

its in Sandstone, western Va sandstone, pretty solid but i'll be checking for hollow flakes before i place anything

bad thing is there is a chance of decking if the thin stuff pulls.

how long do screamers extend? i like the sound but the route is where the thin stuff goes in, if the sling is long(such as an extended screamer) and theres enough slack in the system it'll prolly mean decking...
ima scout it soon and play around on toprope with gear and stances for plugging pro..thanks gents and keep the ideas coming

Donald Tatum · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0

Aid climbing on limestone, very thin crack, I dubiously placed a teeny wired stopper, smallest-size wired stopper they made back then(aluminum, SWC, maybe?). The piece I was anchored on popped, not once, but twice, and both times I dropped 6-8'vertically. The tiny stopper held me both times. When I pulled it I realized that the metal at the base of the stopper head had peeled up along the wires about 1-2mm. I still have it in my retired gear bag.

Daryl Allan · · Sierra Vista, AZ · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 1,040

I'm just going to add this for the sake of being thorough: soft catch. Your belayer's actions will weigh significantly on the performance of your placements of they're not optimal. Leave the grigri/cinch/etc in the car.

Sorry for playing the Mr. Obvious role here but you never know what info can help if you don't throw it out.

Sam Stephens · · PORTLAND, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,090

What route? I'm guessing the New River Gorge? I've done a good bit of stuff out there but that in no way means I've done what you're looking at. Just a shot in the dark.

Kilroywashere! London · · Harrisonburg, Virginia · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 280

its kracken at hidden rocks. looks like it might be wee stoppers...whats the best/quickest way to equalize two stoppers? and how much strength does equalizing two pieces add to the system versus just backing it up with another peice?

Jeff Fiedler · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 0

Equalizing two pieces should cut the force in half compared to just using one piece. Of course, the equalizing might have a bit of friction, so probably not perfect. Even with a bit of friction, seems much more useful than just backing up without equalization.

Simple magic-x seems good to me. I can't imagine wanting to mess around with anything more complicated.

If you know which two pieces you will use, you can even pre-clip them onto one sling.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872
arm-jammer wrote:its in Sandstone, western Va sandstone, pretty solid but i'll be checking for hollow flakes before i place anything bad thing is there is a chance of decking if the thin stuff pulls. how long do screamers extend? i like the sound but the route is where the thin stuff goes in, if the sling is long(such as an extended screamer) and theres enough slack in the system it'll prolly mean decking... ima scout it soon and play around on toprope with gear and stances for plugging pro..thanks gents and keep the ideas coming
I just got screamers not too long ago, the standard ones start at about 6-7" long and after they're fully deployed they're a standard shoulder length runner (about 2 feet). They activate at 2kn (550lbs) and are supposed to reduce the peak load on a piece quite a bit. Nice to have when you've got small gear or old pins that are between you and the hospital. $14 at rock and snow (gunks). They make shorty's too, which are about 4" long at first, but do the exact same thing. From Yates - "The standard Screamer can effectively reduce peak loads by 3-4kN in any climbing or rescue system."
sunder · · Alsip, Il · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 805

Two Pieces of gear equilzed with a sliding x and a Screamer

Try to put the largest size cam you can in the crack as it will have less chance of pulling.

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

I thought you said small gear ? - #1 rp's are small gear

Kilroywashere! London · · Harrisonburg, Virginia · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 280
JSH wrote:I think this discussion is missing a big factor (pun intended): Is this 15' section with meager gear right off the ground, or does it come 100' into a pitch?
its right above a slabby section of the climb thats prolly about 35-40' tall. heres a pic so you can see what im talking about

i35.photobucket.com/albums/…
Kilroywashere! London · · Harrisonburg, Virginia · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 280

haha i need to update those stats, i really lead 5.8 trad comfortably now, and have been leading for over a year now on trad

this would def be pushing my lead limits, my gear knowledge is pretty good, just havent done a super lot when it comes to the smaller gear

Brian Paden · · Goleta CA · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 55

Climbing is dangerous. Take advice from others with a grain of salt, and make your best judgement.

Here are some things you can do,

1) Swallow some pride and rehearse on toprope first
2) Have your partner jump hard for a soft catch
3) Stitch it up and hope something holds

Jesse Ryan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 4,090

Not sure if anyone posted this, but if you really want to know if the gear is solid and don't mind the non-ground up ethic, set a toprope, and test the placements. Bounce test em with your bodyweight, or throw a loaded rucksack at 'em. Then you will know what they can hold.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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