Best way to tie two ropes together for rapping?

steve edwards wrote:How does it stack up when using different diameter ropes (especially small tag lines)?

I pair a 6mm tag line to a 9.5 to 8.9 lead line all the time. EDK. Usually tie two in a row, snugged up against each other. Never had an issue.

Yeah, Steve, ditch that figure eight version!

Cheers.

EDK. A friend showed me this and pulled the not tight by each strand (all 4 of the single lines coming out from the not). The EDK has always seemed pretty solid to me.

ditto what brian in SLC does, i call it the double death knot. also ditto what folks commented about the 'figure 8 edk', ie an edk with an extra wrap. it looks safer than the overhand edk, but is unfortunately knot.

if i know that people are going to be toproping i use a different knot though - usually the opposing retraced figure 8 job with a fisherman's backup. easier to untie than the dub fisherman, but super secure.

Yes, a flat overhand; do it all the time.

Man, none of you are paying attention to the disclaimers in the guidebooks. Climbing is dangerous. Rapping is more so. Just don't do it.

lowering from a sport route seems to be the highest danger

SlowTrad wrote:he commented that the only way to join two ropes of such different diameters is with two figure eight on a bight, with the loops joined.

I hope he didn't mean that...

steve edwards wrote:...How does it stack up when using different diameter ropes (especially small tag lines)?

This link has good information, as well as a couple of useful images.

J. Albers wrote: Nice looking knot Rick, thanks. The flat fisherman is talked about in the discussion on the website that Avery N just posted ( from Avery's post ...interesting pull test data: xmission.com/~tmoyer/testin… ). The xmission.com site did not test the flat fisherman other than noting that when it is under load, they did not observe it flipping at all. Anybody else have anything to say about the flat double fisherman?

The only disadvantage I have ever heard regarding the EDK is user error, not doing the 4 way strand pulling ritual. The only advantages I see with the flat double fisherman is that it is sort of a self checking/tightening knot, really obvious if tied incorrectly and gives me a psychological sense that it is safer, thus I use it. It was introduced to me by Gregger Man on this site several years back.

i will throw in yet another vote from the EDK team!

What makes the EDK easier to pull than a double fisherman's? Seems like both would be equally prone to getting stuck in constrictions etc.

I'm thinking the ability for the knot to rotate its profile.

Toby B wrote:What makes the EDK easier to pull than a double fisherman's? Seems like both would be equally prone to getting stuck in constrictions etc.

I wish I could find the article I read a couple years back on this. As best I remember it is what Mark said above and also the curvature of the rope as it leaves the knot. The tests I saw also suggested that having the knot oriented so the tails are facing the pull direction ( the EDK always orients the tails ) will give even better performance. The knot will orient itself outward on the pull and then fall over an edge. The flat double fisherman shares these features.

Tie a standard double fishermans and an edk or flat double fishermans and pull them over the edge of a desk or table. It is really easy to see the comparison in action.

It's all about the 120m rope.

SlowTrad wrote:SlowTrad wrote: he commented that the only way to join two ropes of such different diameters is with two figure eight on a bight, with the loops joined. Wehling: I hope he didn't mean that... It works, and no chance of those knots coming out....BUT two knots to untie, both have been weighted, too long to tie. I'll give the EDK a try next time I'm out, sounds like there has been lots of testing done.

Oh I know it works. I just hope he didn't mean "the only way" part. There are plenty of other (and better) ways to tie two ropes of different diameters together.

Double-Fisherman's

John Wilder wrote: wish i could remember the link info to where i saw the video

Maybe this one ?

EDK

on another note...

what is the stregnth of the edk, and the stregnth of a
double fishermans?

i was wondering about a edk for a cordelette instead
of a double fishermans. it could be untied real easy
for a number of tasks that you may use a cordelette for.

anyone have any wisdom on this?

I met a guide over the weekend who does things that way, but he tied it with a backup knot to keep it from flipping and perhaps 4 inches of tail.