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Hauling - Tips, Tricks?

Original Post
Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

I'm working up to going out west and doing my first wall(s) hopefully sometime in 2011. I've picked up a BD touchstone and done some practice hauling and I know I can get the pig up the wall. I'm looking to learn the smaller bits that will make life easier.

- Best way to handle multiple haul bags? (Two medium bags or 1 med + 1 small)
- Tips for anchoring/lowering out the bag on a wall
- Tips for accessing the bag while hanging
- Sub-Bags (ledge/waste) - attachment and keeper cords
- Suggested accessories/Bag modifications - Daisies, Keeper Cords, Tool Dip...?
- Other Bag Parts - What do you do with these:
--- There is a loop sewn into the haul loops of mine, just above where they meet the bag - Anchoring?.
--- the 1/2 webbing around the skirt.

Kevin Stricker · · Evergreen, CO · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 1,197

Larry, you might get better response if you post in the Big Walls forum, and ask specific questions. The above is kinda like " How'd U get that rope up there?

Couple answers for you though, I like to haul with my pigs all lined up in a row.. poppa on top, momma in the middle, and lil stinky on the bottom. Key here is to have the biggest pig on top so the others will hopefully not get caught after freeing poppa. All pigs are attached with a cord to keep sillyness from happening, each also has a docking tether. Everything you may need for the day on top of the top piggie. Extra food, clothes, and bivy gear in mid piggie, and you know what stays down below. Most haul bags have a full strength crossed attachment point at their bottoms that allow you to keep them all lined up. I like to keep my water in the top pig so I don't have to manhandle the heavy pig as much.

The docking tether is used to attach the pigs to the anchor with a munter mule. This keep you from having to pick them up off the anchor and you can use the tether to lower them out a bit. Sometimes I will use a cordalette with an 8 tied with a long and short leg so I can use the long leg for more lowering out. Obviously if it is a big traversing pitch you will need to use the rope.

To access your sub bags when hanging at an anchor you can use the line tying them all together. If you are crafty you can set up a minihaul, tension the lower bag then reach under and unclip it from the upper one and haul it up to you. If you are in a hurry just go down and get what you want, mini rap with your grigri.

Don't wait too long to have your blue collar climbing adventure. Vertical camping is a blast, especially if you have a big partner who likes to haul things. Enjoy.

Wiled Horse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2002 · Points: 3,669
Kevin Stricker wrote:Couple answers for you though, I like to haul with my pigs all lined up in a row.. poppa on top, momma in the middle, and lil stinky on the bottom. ... Don't wait too long to have your blue collar climbing adventure. Vertical camping is a blast, especially if you have a big partner who likes to haul things. Enjoy.
very entertaining kevin!
Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Thanks, Kevin;

I know what you're saying about being a bit general, but you've said exactly the things i'm looking to learn. I thought about asking on the other forums too, but, well... those sites are blocked where i work...

Anyways, I see from your picture here what you're talking about having them all lined up. That's a big pig train. I've also seen some with them side-by-side, but i wasn't too keen on that. Do you like one line for your cord keeping the pigs together? Or would it make sense to have a few cords running down so you can quickly get at anything you need to bring up, like your ledge or waste-case? Any worries with the cord(s) getting snagged?

I like the munter-mule suggestion. My hauling practice has been done solo single pitch so far, so I've always had the haul gear handy to lift the bags off and lower them back to the ground. How long a cord do you suggest for the tether?

Thanks again.

Kevin Stricker · · Evergreen, CO · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 1,197

One cord daisy chained into each bag seems to work for me, but some do it differently. Anything hanging from your bag is a potential for snagging, which really is a bummer sometimes.

As for the tether, 5 feet will be plenty for docking the bag. If you want a combo dock/lower out then a 20 foot cordalette with a long and short leg works well.

I'm headed to Yosemite tomorrow for two weeks of family fun, free climbing, and vertical camping on the Captain!

Steven Lucarelli · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 6,794

Larry,

The simpler you can keep your system the better and I would avoid having anything hanging off the pigs since it will get hung up. To answer your questions:

  • If you can get away with one haul bag then thats the best way to go but if you need two then Kevin is right, line them up biggest on top to smallest. I connect the lower bag directly to the bottom of the upper bag with a locking biner and I don't put anything in the lower bag that I might need during the day.
  • For setting up the haul bag I start by putting one locking biner through the main haul loops on the top haul bag. I then slide the top of a two liter soda bottle onto the haul line and tie a figure 8 below this (the top of the bottle protects the knot on the haul line from getting ripped up). Clip the figure 8 to a second locking biner and then connect to the haul bag with a BD swivel in between (these swivels are pricey but well worth the money). I also girth hitch a fifi hook onto the locking biner that is attached to the haul bag and use it to hang the bag from at anchors (with a back up sling as well). Take a look at the picture to see how I set it up, very clean and simple.
  • For lowering out the bag on big pendulums I use a second small rope (mine is a 50m 8mil) and run it through the TOP biner above the swivel just like I would for a rap anchor. I then attach my rappel device directly to the wall anchor and feed both sides of the rope into this device. Then just wait till weight of the pig is on the haul line and lower it out. Once the pig is lowered out completely undo the rope from the rappel device and pull one end back just like you would on a rappel. Then you'll just coil the rope and take it with you as you clean the pitch.
  • I try to always have the bag close when I'm at an anchor so I can easily access it. For hanging belays (and actually all wall belays) I tie my rope to the anchor a little long so I'm not weighting it and use my two adjustable daisies to hang from. This way I can stand on top of the pig instead of hanging from my harness and if I need to access it I can just extend my daisies and hang from them to get to the top of the bag (see second picture).
  • Attach porta ledges and shit tubes to the bottom of the lowest haul bag. I don't use "keeper cords" unless I need to disconnect one of the additional bags from the main haul bag. If you have keeper cords attached to all the bags all the time they will just get hung up and trashed when hauling.
  • I don't use the loops sewn into the haul loop and the 1/2" webbing around the skirt is just added protection to keep to top of the bag closed. Just clip a biner through the webbing and keep clipping it to other parts of the same webbing (kind of like a spider web) until its snug and out of the way.

Some additional notes: When your leading and trailing up the haul line, have it ready to go with the end of the haul line already ran through the haul device. So when you get to the anchor all you have to do is unclip it from your harness and clip it to the anchor and your ready to go, saves time. Also if your bags are heavy use the counter weight method of hauling as follows: When your follower is done cleaning the pitch make sure they are tied long into the lead line on a bite (I would say at least 20' of slack or more). Then have them attach their ascenders to the tail end of the haul line and hang off it like a counter weight. As you haul the pig they will go down until they get to the end of their tied off lead line. Then they just need to ascend back up the tail end of the haul line that they are already hanging from and you do it all over again. Just make sure the bags are heavy enough to do this so your follower doesn't end up dropping like a rock and sending the pigs into the anchor.

Haul bag set-up.

Anchor Set-up, haul bag hanging from fifi that is hooked through a sling attached to the anchor (backed up with another sling that is attached with a locking biner).
Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Steven, Thanks for the advice, Any recommendations for haul lines? Is it worth getting a tag line too? I was looking at the Blue Water 9.5mm static to keep things a little lighter and not use a tag line.

Steven Lucarelli · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 6,794

That would be a perfect haul line, I use a similar haul line and its worth the money for sure. I wouldn't bother with a tag line unless your planning on climbing with a party of three. I use a tag line when I climb with a party of three because I am pulling up two ropes (haul line and a second lead line) but for a party of two its just one more thing to deal with at the anchor.

Steven Lucarelli · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 6,794

JLP, you've obviously missed the point of the origional post. He's "working on doing his first wall". So while your macho chest beating about A5 and body weight placements is special and all it doesn't really apply. Unless he's planning on spending 10 days on his first wall, side-by side haul bags and tagging up gear is overkill. And loading yourself down with a bunch of heavy and unnecessary gear is ridiculous. Efficiency and simplicity is what gets you to the top of walls, not bringing everything including the kitchen sink.

Jordan Ramey · · Calgary, Alberta · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 4,251

Don't haul with a static line. Haul with a dynamic line. Static lines are good for fixing and don't make much difference for hauling.

Pros:
1. extra lead line in case yours gets coreshot
2. isn't a piece of steel if you drop you bags and shockload the anchor

cons:
1. rope stretch? not really an issue if you're just hauling.

bring less stuff, climb faster.

John McNamee · · Littleton, CO · Joined Jul 2002 · Points: 1,690

Go as light and keep your systems as simple as possible. Hauling isn't a lot of fun so I would rather go without luxuries for a few days and have an easier time hauling.

Russ has some good advice!

I haul on old lead ropes. I stopped using static when my lead line got caught in a flake in Zion soloing several years ago and I had to chop it up and tie sections together.

Steven Lucarelli · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 6,794

I do agree that a 7/16" haul line will last a lot longer than a 9.5mm but going light is never a bad thing. But I would still go with a Static over a Dynamic for a few reasons. A static haul line is much stronger and more wear resistant than a dynamic. Also due to the lack of stretch and the increased durability it is much safer over an edge when your ascending it. I would agree that there is minimal benefit as far as hauling once a dynamic rope is weighted but it is still a little more efficient to haul on a static rope. And finally (unless you have more than two ropes), if you core shot your lead line your most likely going down so I wouldn't be to worried about having a back-up lead line.

Steven Lucarelli · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 6,794

JLP, Your advice is fine, its the way its presented thats the problem. For one its all geared toward hard long aid routes which is overkill for someone just starting wall climbing. And you portray yourself as superior to all others with terms such as "only a rookie" etc. So if you want to give advice then great, just get over yourself when your doing it so you don't sound like such a jack*ss.

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Russ Walling wrote: yeah.... right. Tagging all your crap every 20-30 feet is not only slow, but clusterfuckish to boot. Just carry the stuff you'll need for the pitch and move fast. These modern systems of tagging, muling, grigri backuping, quadruple powerpointing, solar showering and all the rest is why the bail rate is at an all time high on El Cap. If todays climbers would spend more time climbing and less time futzing they might actually top out on something.
I agree.

For the record, I've never used a tag line when leading. Never had to. Now that things are going alot cleaner, people are using less iron, lots of beaks instead of heavy LAs and angles, I don't see the benefit except for emergencies.
divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90

JLP, by using a tag line, don't you run out of it by mid point? Do you connect your tag line to your haul line?

mucci · · sf ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 655

I Never use a tagline...

If you can't figure out what you need before you hit the middle on the haul line, you make due.

Most pitches are under 150' on walls, you only have to guess at the last 50 feet.

Oh and I just retired my 8mm haul line a few months ago.

45+ aid pitches on it, not to mention the all of the fixing.

Core shots do not end a hauling lines life.

Mucci

As to the OP-

Try and get a yates fat sac, short, squat and you can actually reach the bottom.

Catch lines for the ledge and shitter and food bucket etc... Accessory cords, ropes, runners, are all expendable. Burners I call em.

I go through a half dozen ropes a season, soft gear has no longevity on walls.

Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872

Thanks for all the advice, I'll clarify my goals a little bit. We're looking at heading out to do our first walls within a year, sticking to the trade routes; washington column and/or half dome. This might be our only big wall trip, at least it is in the foreseeable future. Ideally, we're looking to be in separate teams of 2, but there's a chance we might be a group of 3. We have some old lead ropes we could use for hauling, but thought it would be better to have a static line. My thought is (so long as we're in a team of 2) to use a lighter static line, like a 9.5mm and forgo the tag line. Keep it simple and keep the overall weight down. If we end up in a team of 3, we'll figure something out for a tag line, possibly an old half rope. But really, we're not going to be doing extensive fixing and hauling, the haul line just needs to survive those two routes as we don't have much use for it out here in PA. I could see going with a beefier rope if we were going to use it more. But I couldn't see going skinnier, sounds pretty nuts to me to fix and haul on an 8mm as some have said they do.

With all that said, does the plan sound sane?

Steven Lucarelli · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 6,794

I somewhat agree about halfdome, its a bitch to get to with wall gear and is much easier to do if you can free most of it but I know several friends that have done it for their first wall. I also agree that a party of three can be a CF if you don't have your systems dialed. I actually prefer it and find its a lot less work, faster and more efficient than two if you have a good system. I can give you more details on the ways to make a party of three faster and easier than a party of two if you want?

Fat Dad · · Los Angeles, CA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 60
Larry S wrote:My thought is (so long as we're in a team of 2) to use a lighter static line, like a 9.5mm and forgo the tag line. Keep it simple and keep the overall weight down. If we end up in a team of 3, we'll figure something out for a tag line, possibly an old half rope.?
I kind of wonder why people post threads asking for advice and then ignore it.

First, I think the drawbacks of a static line have already been discussed.

Second, I think the drawbacks of a tag line have already been discussed, particularly if you're climbing easier aid lines. I can't even begin to imagine how unnecessary (and what a pain in the butt) a tag line would be on HD. Also, for the Column, why? It goes all clean and you'll have a pretty light rack.

For the routes you're contemplating, neither of those are needed and, if anything, would just contribute to a clusterf$%k and a greater probability of failure. You sound like a reasonable guy, so be more receptive to what others with greater experience are telling you. If not, why bother asking?
Larry S · · Easton, PA · Joined May 2010 · Points: 872
Fat Dad wrote: I kind of wonder why people post threads asking for advice and then ignore it. ... You sound like a reasonable guy, so be more receptive to what others with greater experience are telling you. If not, why bother asking?
Well, pretty much every end of the spectrum has been discussed in here. So I'm trying to elaborate on my situation throwing out what i think is a reasonable solution based on the differing advice and opinions given. I'd like to do my first and possibly only wall. I want to haul it and I want bivy. Those are two routes I'm considering, but routes are not what this post is about. I'm asking about gear and systems. You say not to use a tag line. I agree with you there, though others in here have said it's indispensable for them. I think it'll be one more thing to lug in and carry up. But like i said, i want to haul and want to bivy. People in here have said they use between an 8mm and 11mm haul line but an old beefy dynamic line could do for a bit. I know a heavier line will last longer, but I don't think i'll want to be doing much free climbing with a 10+lb haul line hanging off me, which brings back the tag line, i would think. What do you use for hauling when you're not using a tag line on a route that goes mostly free? After considering all the advice in here, that's the solution I've reached; to skip the tag line and to get a middle weight haul line or old lead line that will be good enough for a limited amount of hauling but not too heavy. And now I'm asking that sounds reasonable, that's all.

Steven, thanks, I might take you up on the advice once I've got some practice moving in a 3man team first. Done it plenty of times free climbing, but never with anyone jugging.
Erik W · · Santa Cruz, CA · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 280

For those walls, definitely just bring an old lead line - no need to go out and buy a static cord. I'd recommend passing on the tag line as well.

I agree with the above posters that HD should be avoided as a multi-day / hauling objective. For the South Face on the Column, first time I did it with the objective of hauling to the top, but after getting the pig to Dinner I said "screw this" and left the works there on the ledge and just did an up and back the next day. Hauling that thing blows. Prow definitely looks more vert, so probably a lot easier to haul on.

Another thought for your first wall might be one of the trade routes in Zion. For a C1 beginner route, hauling doesn't get much easier or straight forward than Moonlight.

Lastly, forget making a shit tube / crap cannon if you were thinking about it. Just stick with a cheapo size small drybag from Sierra Trading Post (or some other clearance outfit) and wrap the sucker in some duct tape (need to do that anyway to outfit the thing with a sling). Works great, lightweight for approaches/descents, cheap, fun to burp it!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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