Hauling - Tips, Tricks?
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I'm working up to going out west and doing my first wall(s) hopefully sometime in 2011. I've picked up a BD touchstone and done some practice hauling and I know I can get the pig up the wall. I'm looking to learn the smaller bits that will make life easier. |
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Larry, you might get better response if you post in the Big Walls forum, and ask specific questions. The above is kinda like " How'd U get that rope up there? |
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Kevin Stricker wrote:Couple answers for you though, I like to haul with my pigs all lined up in a row.. poppa on top, momma in the middle, and lil stinky on the bottom. ... Don't wait too long to have your blue collar climbing adventure. Vertical camping is a blast, especially if you have a big partner who likes to haul things. Enjoy.very entertaining kevin! |
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Thanks, Kevin; |
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One cord daisy chained into each bag seems to work for me, but some do it differently. Anything hanging from your bag is a potential for snagging, which really is a bummer sometimes. |
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Larry,
Some additional notes: When your leading and trailing up the haul line, have it ready to go with the end of the haul line already ran through the haul device. So when you get to the anchor all you have to do is unclip it from your harness and clip it to the anchor and your ready to go, saves time. Also if your bags are heavy use the counter weight method of hauling as follows: When your follower is done cleaning the pitch make sure they are tied long into the lead line on a bite (I would say at least 20' of slack or more). Then have them attach their ascenders to the tail end of the haul line and hang off it like a counter weight. As you haul the pig they will go down until they get to the end of their tied off lead line. Then they just need to ascend back up the tail end of the haul line that they are already hanging from and you do it all over again. Just make sure the bags are heavy enough to do this so your follower doesn't end up dropping like a rock and sending the pigs into the anchor. Haul bag set-up. Anchor Set-up, haul bag hanging from fifi that is hooked through a sling attached to the anchor (backed up with another sling that is attached with a locking biner). |
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Steven, Thanks for the advice, Any recommendations for haul lines? Is it worth getting a tag line too? I was looking at the Blue Water 9.5mm static to keep things a little lighter and not use a tag line. |
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That would be a perfect haul line, I use a similar haul line and its worth the money for sure. I wouldn't bother with a tag line unless your planning on climbing with a party of three. I use a tag line when I climb with a party of three because I am pulling up two ropes (haul line and a second lead line) but for a party of two its just one more thing to deal with at the anchor. |
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JLP, you've obviously missed the point of the origional post. He's "working on doing his first wall". So while your macho chest beating about A5 and body weight placements is special and all it doesn't really apply. Unless he's planning on spending 10 days on his first wall, side-by side haul bags and tagging up gear is overkill. And loading yourself down with a bunch of heavy and unnecessary gear is ridiculous. Efficiency and simplicity is what gets you to the top of walls, not bringing everything including the kitchen sink. |
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Don't haul with a static line. Haul with a dynamic line. Static lines are good for fixing and don't make much difference for hauling. |
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Go as light and keep your systems as simple as possible. Hauling isn't a lot of fun so I would rather go without luxuries for a few days and have an easier time hauling. |
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I do agree that a 7/16" haul line will last a lot longer than a 9.5mm but going light is never a bad thing. But I would still go with a Static over a Dynamic for a few reasons. A static haul line is much stronger and more wear resistant than a dynamic. Also due to the lack of stretch and the increased durability it is much safer over an edge when your ascending it. I would agree that there is minimal benefit as far as hauling once a dynamic rope is weighted but it is still a little more efficient to haul on a static rope. And finally (unless you have more than two ropes), if you core shot your lead line your most likely going down so I wouldn't be to worried about having a back-up lead line. |
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JLP, Your advice is fine, its the way its presented thats the problem. For one its all geared toward hard long aid routes which is overkill for someone just starting wall climbing. And you portray yourself as superior to all others with terms such as "only a rookie" etc. So if you want to give advice then great, just get over yourself when your doing it so you don't sound like such a jack*ss. |
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Russ Walling wrote: yeah.... right. Tagging all your crap every 20-30 feet is not only slow, but clusterfuckish to boot. Just carry the stuff you'll need for the pitch and move fast. These modern systems of tagging, muling, grigri backuping, quadruple powerpointing, solar showering and all the rest is why the bail rate is at an all time high on El Cap. If todays climbers would spend more time climbing and less time futzing they might actually top out on something.I agree. For the record, I've never used a tag line when leading. Never had to. Now that things are going alot cleaner, people are using less iron, lots of beaks instead of heavy LAs and angles, I don't see the benefit except for emergencies. |
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JLP, by using a tag line, don't you run out of it by mid point? Do you connect your tag line to your haul line? |
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I Never use a tagline... |
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Thanks for all the advice, I'll clarify my goals a little bit. We're looking at heading out to do our first walls within a year, sticking to the trade routes; washington column and/or half dome. This might be our only big wall trip, at least it is in the foreseeable future. Ideally, we're looking to be in separate teams of 2, but there's a chance we might be a group of 3. We have some old lead ropes we could use for hauling, but thought it would be better to have a static line. My thought is (so long as we're in a team of 2) to use a lighter static line, like a 9.5mm and forgo the tag line. Keep it simple and keep the overall weight down. If we end up in a team of 3, we'll figure something out for a tag line, possibly an old half rope. But really, we're not going to be doing extensive fixing and hauling, the haul line just needs to survive those two routes as we don't have much use for it out here in PA. I could see going with a beefier rope if we were going to use it more. But I couldn't see going skinnier, sounds pretty nuts to me to fix and haul on an 8mm as some have said they do. |
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I somewhat agree about halfdome, its a bitch to get to with wall gear and is much easier to do if you can free most of it but I know several friends that have done it for their first wall. I also agree that a party of three can be a CF if you don't have your systems dialed. I actually prefer it and find its a lot less work, faster and more efficient than two if you have a good system. I can give you more details on the ways to make a party of three faster and easier than a party of two if you want? |
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Larry S wrote:My thought is (so long as we're in a team of 2) to use a lighter static line, like a 9.5mm and forgo the tag line. Keep it simple and keep the overall weight down. If we end up in a team of 3, we'll figure something out for a tag line, possibly an old half rope.?I kind of wonder why people post threads asking for advice and then ignore it. First, I think the drawbacks of a static line have already been discussed. Second, I think the drawbacks of a tag line have already been discussed, particularly if you're climbing easier aid lines. I can't even begin to imagine how unnecessary (and what a pain in the butt) a tag line would be on HD. Also, for the Column, why? It goes all clean and you'll have a pretty light rack. For the routes you're contemplating, neither of those are needed and, if anything, would just contribute to a clusterf$%k and a greater probability of failure. You sound like a reasonable guy, so be more receptive to what others with greater experience are telling you. If not, why bother asking? |
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Fat Dad wrote: I kind of wonder why people post threads asking for advice and then ignore it. ... You sound like a reasonable guy, so be more receptive to what others with greater experience are telling you. If not, why bother asking?Well, pretty much every end of the spectrum has been discussed in here. So I'm trying to elaborate on my situation throwing out what i think is a reasonable solution based on the differing advice and opinions given. I'd like to do my first and possibly only wall. I want to haul it and I want bivy. Those are two routes I'm considering, but routes are not what this post is about. I'm asking about gear and systems. You say not to use a tag line. I agree with you there, though others in here have said it's indispensable for them. I think it'll be one more thing to lug in and carry up. But like i said, i want to haul and want to bivy. People in here have said they use between an 8mm and 11mm haul line but an old beefy dynamic line could do for a bit. I know a heavier line will last longer, but I don't think i'll want to be doing much free climbing with a 10+lb haul line hanging off me, which brings back the tag line, i would think. What do you use for hauling when you're not using a tag line on a route that goes mostly free? After considering all the advice in here, that's the solution I've reached; to skip the tag line and to get a middle weight haul line or old lead line that will be good enough for a limited amount of hauling but not too heavy. And now I'm asking that sounds reasonable, that's all. Steven, thanks, I might take you up on the advice once I've got some practice moving in a 3man team first. Done it plenty of times free climbing, but never with anyone jugging. |
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For those walls, definitely just bring an old lead line - no need to go out and buy a static cord. I'd recommend passing on the tag line as well. |