steel quickdraws

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

...even if some where kind of non sequiturs...

Tim C wrote:How about using a steel quick link at one end and a crab at the other end of a dog bone?

slim wrote:brian, the friction at the top of a toprope setup is essential for providing the ability to counteract the load.

True. If you had a fair weight difference, the belayer may struggle a bit, to be sure. Anchoring would make sense.

Good call.

Forestvonsinkafinger wrote:A while back, I heard or read that it is bad ethic to TR from sport anchors. As A guide, I have done this a fair amount for newbies (Using our draws of course). Is it bad ethic?

He really just asked this question and said "as a GUIDE"? Scary

I think the best solution for you is nabbing a couple of THEIR draws.

I think that the second best solution is just sucking up the fact that you'll be buying 2 new biners every however often. Even in institutional settings, aluminum biners can last a couple years. FWIW, Petzl Atache biners(the old yellow ones) seem to wear faster than most.

I simply don't see the need for steel biner. But, if you are TR'ing enough to warrant the extra weight, I'd get a shear reduction device. The real savings will be in increased rope life, which steel biners won't do.
Plus, SRD's still offer some friction.

Cota wrote: He really just asked this question and said "as a GUIDE"? Scary

Allow me to clarify, I guide climbing trips for a University, we take 10 or so students at a time to crags for single pitch top roping and sport climbing. I once heard that it is a better ethic to set up a top rope on gear/trees when having rookies (who fall a lot on TR) on the line. Thus extending the life of the anchors, though very time consuming. Looking for opinions (I feel that using our own draws is fine, and that TR falls only weight the anchor, and as not a shock load are hardly detrimental).

There are no certifications for guiding I hold beyond WFR and a BA in ORec and all other guiding I have done has been for hikes and backpacks.

Forestvonsinkafinger wrote: Allow me to clarify, I guide climbing trips for a University, we take 10 or so students at a time to crags for single pitch top roping and sport climbing. I once heard that it is a better ethic to set up a top rope on gear/trees when having rookies (who fall a lot on TR) on the line. Thus extending the life of the anchors, though very time consuming. Looking for opinions (I feel that using our own draws is fine, and that TR falls only weight the anchor, and as not a shock load are hardly detrimental). There are no certifications for guiding I hold beyond WFR and a BA in ORec and all other guiding I have done has been for hikes and backpacks.

You got razzed because being a "guide" typically means holding a AMGA rock cert or higher. No worries. Those Uni classes are awesome and where many people get their start. I used to work them when I was in college.

You should not worry about TR'ing off solid bolts in solid rock. Just run the rope through your own gear. The wear and tear of groups won't hurt it.

If you are at all suspect of the bolts, natural anchors/gear should be used.

There are no hard and fast rules, just good judgment. As a general rule, I'd say people who lack extensive trad/gear experience are better off using existing bolts or slinging natural features when available. The risk of misplaced gear outweighs the risk of suspect bolts in most cases.

You just need to evaluate the rock, the fixed gear, the gear potentials, and your competency and make the best decision for the situation.

Evan

Just to comment on the use of a revolver biner to minimize rope wear.

Don't do it. The point about a heavier climber pulling up a lighter belayer is not some theoretical, safety-weenie notion.

When I first started climbing, before I knew better, I climbed on a TR set up by someone with a pulley.

I weigh 200, and I pulled a 160 pound belayer clear to the top of the climb. Fast. We were both incredibly lucky he held onto the belay, and that we didn't hit each other.

Friction is your friend.