Weight Training vs. Climbing
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This is kind of a dumb question, but it's been driving me nuts. One of my coworkers is a personal trainer, and I occasionally consult with her about nutritional/diet related things. Every time we talk, we get started on my exercise regimen, and she is always telling me that I need to lift weights. I end up smiling and nodding, because to me climbing is pretty equivalent to weight training. It is load bearing exercise, and while you don't isolate specific muscles the same way that weight trainging does, climbing seems like a more full body strength training exercise, and based on my knowledge of anat/phys should give equal benefit. |
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TinaTurner wrote:This is kind of a dumb question, but it's been driving me nuts. One of my coworkers is a personal trainer, and I occasionally consult with her about nutritional/diet related things. Every time we talk, we get started on my exercise regimen, and she is always telling me that I need to lift weights. I end up smiling and nodding, because to me climbing is pretty equivalent to weight training. It is load bearing exercise, and while you don't isolate specific muscles the same way that weight trainging does, climbing seems like a more full body strength training exercise, and based on my knowledge of anat/phys should give equal benefit. I'm not talking weight training to improve climbing, I'm talking climbing having similar physical fitness benefits to weight training. If I am climbing 3 days a week, isn't that enough as far as strength training goes- strictly from a physical fitness standpoint? I am assuming my trainer friend maybe doesn't understand the strengthening benefits of real, legitimate climbing. Because if you aren't a regular climber, it's kind of more floundering around than focused strengthening. Anybody know anything about the comparison?Climbing is a poor substitute for weight training if that is what you need. Most muscles are underutilized in climbing. If you goal is overall fitness climbing would not be the way to do it. You end up limited most of the time by finger and forearm fatigue before you other muscles are at failure. With that said nothing is wrong with just climbing, as long as you are aware that climbing's main benefit is getting better at climbing. |
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I don't climb for the physical fitness benefits- that's just the icing on the cake to me. But when she and I are talking nutritional deficits, boosting metabolism, etc etc she is always going back to strength training. Her logic being that muscle burns more calories than fat does, so increasing your muscle mass increases your metabolism, and strength training increases muscle. But doesn't climbing too? |
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TinaTurner wrote:I don't climb for the physical fitness benefits- that's just the icing on the cake to me. But when she and I are talking nutritional deficits, boosting metabolism, etc etc she is always going back to strength training. Her logic being that muscle burns more calories than fat does, so increasing your muscle mass increases your metabolism, and strength training increases muscle. But doesn't climbing too? The most "cut" and strong people I know are climbers- who don't weight train. They just climb. And maybe do some pullups or a hang board occasionally in the winter. And I am much more sore from a full day of climbing than I ever get from an hour of weights. I guess as far as increasing muscle mass, which in turn boosts metabolism, climbing would seem as effective as weights. But, I do see what you mean about weights going until muscle failure. Climbing rarely reaches full blown failure. I might not be able to climb anymore after doing a bunch of routes, but it's not generally an individualized muscle group failing. Strength training and regular climbing seems like overkill to me if I am just trying to increase muscle mass. Just climbing seems to be enough for others...But I'm prob just being a baby because I really hate the gym and all things related to the gym. I'd rather hike, climb, bike, play volleyball- you know, fun things:)Nope. Most climbers get cut because they are dedicated and realize they need to shed excess fat, and do so by extreme dieting and/or extensive cardio. Climbing does not build muscle very efficiently compared to weight training. Most jacked/cut climbers get to where they are at through years of climbing, whereas a proper weight training regiment with the correct diet can get there much faster if that is your goal. Climb to climb, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is a replacement for weight training. |
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[quote]I guess as far as increasing muscle mass, which in turn boosts metabolism, climbing would seem as effective as weights.[/quote] |
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Okay, so the take home message I'm getting from this is that strength training will get you results more quickly than climbing will. CLimbing will take years and years to gain more visible results. Which is what I figured as climbing progress happens pretty slowly for most folks. A person climbing for 3-5 years is still considered a relatively new climber. |
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Red is right on w/ his response. All of the cut climbers I know are that way because of extracurricular cardio, or they are simply climbing 5+ days a week, which is in itself enough of a cardio workout to keep the body fat low. |
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Most of the trainers I know would tell you that it is necessary to exercise those muscle groups that oppose the groups used for climbing; or, to push and pull in opposition to climbing movement. Oppositional training is thought to help prevent some injuries. BTW-loved you in Beyond Thunderdome... |
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"My question to Tina would be: what are your goals and how quickly to you want to get there." |
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There is a woman named Aereli here on MP who gives out pretty much the last word in advice with topics related to physiology and training. But while we wait for her could I interject a few bullet-points:
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One other obvious difference between weights and climbing is that climbing doesn't heavily load the biggest muscles in your body (glutes, hamstrings, quads, spinal extensors). Weights will if you do the more useful exersises (mainly squats and deadlifts). |
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Mike Lane wrote:There is a woman named Aereli here on MP who gives out pretty much the last word in advice with topics related to physiology and training.Thanks for the compliment, Mike (er, I think it was a compliment!). But to be fair, there are several others who have given and continue to give pretty damn good advice too. :) I want to say a couple things about the rest of your post as well. Mike Lane wrote:Climbing works on the longer slow-fire muscle cells while weights target the fatter quick-firing cells. Thus, weight training expands fatter cells, creating mass; climbing tightens the longer cells creating definition, but this process takes longer.Um, well, not exactly. Everything you do fires what is called slow twitch muscle cells first (even powerful movements), then, if the recruitment requirements are great enough (i.e. increased strength output is required, or the speed of the movement is high), intermediate and then fast twitch cells are fired additionally. Climbing uses all types of muscle cells and firing rates. Climbing is mostly "slow," but movements such as deadpoints, dyno's, bouldery moves, or any fast movement will require fast twitch fibers to be called upon. Weight training does not necessarily recruit only fast twitch fibers, either. People who do 50 push-ups or 50 pull-ups are not really recruiting their fastest muscle fibers at all. If I lift a small weight many times, it is not going to require the fastest fibers either. As for climbing "tightening the longer cells," um, that makes no sense to me. Mike Lane wrote:With hard climbing training, you can develop a well-chiseled back and shoulders that is hard to obtain with weights, b/c of the different muscle cells you are developing.For most people, I would agree that climbing will give them a more chiseled back and shoulders, but not because of using "different cells," only due to the volume of resistance training. If you also did that much volume in a regular weight room, you would get a similar effect. Mike Lane wrote:I think the bottom line ... is that climbing is an Isometric exercise while weights are load movement/resistance.Hmmm..."load movement/resistance" doesn't mean anything to me. Climbing is only mainly isometric in nature wrt hand/forearm contractions and lock-off positions, otherwise everything about it is isotonic in nature, just like most traditional forms of weight lifting. Climbing vs lifting weights with the same muscles are not "perceived" as being different by your body. Resistance is resistance, regardless of how it occurs. To the OP: TinaTurner wrote:I'm talking climbing having similar physical fitness benefits to weight training. If I am climbing 3 days a week, isn't that enough as far as strength training goes- strictly from a physical fitness standpoint?Climbing is weight training for the muscles that are called upon to do the movements required for the routes/problems you engage in. Climbing is not equivalent to a standard, whole body weight room conditioning workout. Of course climbing builds muscle. But it is not really that systematic, and it tends to over-develop one side of certain joints, leaving one prone to overuse injuries. It also doesn't do much to develop lean mass in the lower body (calves/feet being the exception, unless you only climb overhanging stuff), which will give you the most metabolic boost. If you were my client and wanted to lose a few more pounds, I would say you should continue climbing, do high intensity interval cardio workouts 2x a week and weight train in moderation the muscle groups that get neglected in climbing (aka prehab workouts) 1-2x per week (more if you climb less, less if you climb more), and lastly--REALLY watch your calorie intake. Cut down. Fwiw, I'm a climber and a trainer (BSc ex sci, NSCA CSCS, blah blah blah) Hope that helps! |
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Great posts and great info, thanks! |
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Aerili wrote: Climbing is weight training for the muscles that are called upon to do the movements required for the routes/problems you engage in. Climbing is not equivalent to a standard, whole body weight room conditioning workout.Thank you! This is what I was trying to say, and answers my question on top of it. That's what was getting me confused. From what I know of anat/phys, climbing should be similar to weight training. I just didn't know if it had the same full body effect. I assumed it did, just because the muscle groups seem so diverse. I do a climb one day, and my glutes will be so sore the next day. The next time I go out, my shoulders will be sore. I thought maybe it was comprehensive because depending on the style and where you are climbing you target different muscles each time. But I see what you mean. The consistency is lacking, and while certain muscles are targeted again and again, others are only tapped into sometimes. But what about the whole picture of climbing? When you consider an approach that's steep and arduous with a heavy pack on your back. Pounding straight up a hill for 30 or so minutes seems like it would count for something? I'm a girl, so I rely pretty heavily on my legs to climb as well. |
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I am not a personal trainer so I will not comment on the physiology here except in the most general terms. First, muscle mass per se is not a desirable goal in developing climbing strength. There is no point in carrying a single ounce you do not need to help you do a move. Climbing is not about exerting maximum effort moving a giant load, it is about moving your body efficiently and accurately where you want it to go. Body weight stays relatively consistent most of the time while climbing and in fact most climbs spread out this load across the body, especially on those strong leg muscles |
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Yes, that's why my logic has been to lose weight rather than lift. I climb in all genre's, and am not strictly a steep sporty climber- Nor do I want to be that. I prefer cracks, and trad, and granite, but I sport climb in the summer some too. I just want to improve overall. And I think losing the excess will help. |
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Take up alpine climbing, and you should quickly realize your weight loss goals while having fun. Let's take a look at the standard alpine day VS you typical weight gym routine to determine it's effectiveness. |
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Be sure that your weights are heavy. |
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TinaTurner wrote:But, I understand better now the difference between the type of muscle built in climbing, and the type of muscle built from lifting.There is no different type of muscle. Muscle is muscle. (Edit: talking about skeletal muscle here.) Lifting with weights also does not have to = building mass if you do it right. TinaTurner wrote:And on a somewhat unrelated side note- I used to be big into lunges. Will these have a similar effect as squats and deadlifts? Any extra strength type training I would do is at home (though I only really do ab work now), and lunges with weights is the best I can think of to mimic those. Plus, I like lunges:).Lunges do not typically work back extensors as much as squats and deadlifts, and neither squats or lunges work the posterior chain the way deadlifts do (posterior chain = back extensors, glutes, hams, calves in a synergistic fashion). But otherwise, yes, it's a compound lower body exercise. Kevin Stricker is correct that alpine will burn calories like all get-out. You will be eyeing the rack of candy bars in no time sans guilt. The only downside for some people is that the gnarly descents involved can wreak havoc on knee joints and such, and when knee joints hurt a lot, the answer is...weight training. As for Blitzo's picture, why does Russ Walling keep his dumbbells tied up like an S&M scenario gone wrong?? |
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Aerili wrote: doesn't mean anything to me.Sometimes I just don't know where the shit I say comes from. I think I must enjoy getting people to make a "WTF?" face, even if I can't see it. And yes, it was meant as a compliment even with the wrong spelling. |
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Aerili wrote: As for Blitzo's picture, why does Russ Walling keep his dumbbells tied up like an S&M scenario gone wrong??That's so when he drops the weight on his foot he doesn't have to worry about it rolling over his hand as he is squirming on the ground in agony. |