What's with shoe sizes?

First of all, best of luck to any of you who attempt to buy shoes over the internet without ever having worn that exact brand/model/size. What's with the totally inconsistant sizes in climbing shoes? Yeah, I realize the rand and other stuff may be different per shoe, but how can a size 12 from one company fit like a 10.5 from another? It's mad, just mad! Even the Euro-US conversion charts they include on websites, often don't match up. If a US 9.5 is a Euro 42.5 for one, how can it not be for another? I realize that ultra curved and aggressive shoes will have a totally different fit, but for us normal Joe's wearing a foot-friendly shoe, how is it the sizes are just so screwed up?

What are your best/worst size experiences? Who has great size accuracy for a thick American male foot? I find MadRock shoes to be getting better in technical ability and rubber, but many models seem to be many sizes smaller than labeled. My 5.10's seem to be about the best fit, right out of the box as sized. How about Red Chili? Sportiva? Evolv? Boreal? What shoe manufacturer seems to have the best, most accurate size and fit in your experience?

With the advent of synthetic rands, too, it makes matters much worse since those shoes stretch very little.

I've had older all leather shoes that stretch out a size or more after a sweaty season of climbing. And newer ones that I can't get to budge a centimeter after soaking and using a shoe tree strecher trying to gain some space. Slippers and slingshot heel shoes, well I can't even get my foot inside unless it's a full 2 sizes larger.

The only solution that I have found is to order several sizes of a pair I'm interested in, try them on, then return the ones that don't fit. A few of the usual climbing gear companies have great return policies, but it's still an expensive pain in the ass.

My first pair of evolvs were the defy, and they fit my fat feet in my regular street shoe size. I wear the optimus primes now, and I have them cranked down tight, but even in them I'm only a half size down from my street shoes.

I'm not sure that sportiva's will fit you very well if you've got a high volume foot. But they do at least seem to be somewhat consistent in how their sizing works from one model to the next. Or at least that's true w/ the four different models I've worn.
good luck

Josh Olson wrote:My first pair of evolvs were the defy, and they fit my fat feet in my regular street shoe size. I wear the optimus primes now, and I have them cranked down tight, but even in them I'm only a half size down from my street shoes.

I've heard the same thing from an Evolv sponsored athlete, and other climbers who wear their true-to-fit shoes. Praise beyond the great rubber performance.
I know a girl with womens size 8.5 feet who comfortably wears an older model Red Chili mens size 12.5. Go figure.

I took a chance with mmy 5.10 anasazis, buying them off the internet and just getting the same size as my evlovs. They fortunatly fit like a charm and are my favorite pair of shoes now.

I took a chance with my 5.10 anasazis, buying them off the internet and just getting the same size as my evlovs. They fortunatly fit like a charm and are my favorite pair of shoes now.

Check out Acopa, they are designed to fit according to your street shoe size. Street shoe size for comfort fit, 1/2 size down for snug, full size for tight. If in doubt, give them a call/email to discuss sizing. I went half size down on the Spectres (lined leather), they stretched about a 1/4 size as I was told they would. Snug but comfortable, and still fit great after a couple resoles. Good luck.

Forgot about Acopas. Have heard very good about size and fit before. After a lifetime of wearing thin socks in painful shoes, I"m finally barefoot in a selection of lace up MadRock shoes that now fit perfectly after some 'size adjustments' and upsizing to start. But nothing was as painful and useless as my old school 'EB's from late 70's era.

La Sportiva has a note about sizing on their website ...
"While it isn’t a black or white issue, a general rule dictates that soft shoes require a tighter fit, two to three sizes smaller than your street shoe size. We recommend you fit your trad shoes one to two sizes under your street shoe size."

sportiva.com/products/sizin…

And while this advice is no huge surprise to any of us, I do find it intriguing that they simply recognize the disparity between street and climbing sizing and choose not to "fix" the sizing scheme.

?? so by Sportiva logic, a Sportiva size 12 would be way too large for your foot, and would fit like a larger street shoe? Or do they intend for your toes to be doubled over for a 'proper fit' in their terms? Just more misleading confusion. Sorry, I just can't fold over my toes and expect to climb anything worthwhile.

I want a shoe company to come out and say that "our designs and lasts saying size 6, will be a full size smaller than the same number 6 of your street shoe. Plan accordingly on your shoe size choice" They can't sell it sized with the intent of making you cram your foot into the tight shoe they seem to think you require. Truth in sizing I say!!

Why does it matter what size you have to wear? Just go into a store and try on different brands and sizes until you find one that you like and buy them. There is a LOT more to shoe fit than the 'size'...I've turned away shoes because they were too wide, or too narrow, or the heel was too deep, or the heel was too shallow, or the toes were too cramped, or the top cut into my ankle. Even regular clothes are like this...I wear a large in some brands and a medium in others. As long as it fits I don't care what the label says.

Sure, the internet is a good place to find cheap, tax-free deals on shoes, but I would NEVER order climbing shoes online unless I've tried them on before.

That being said, I generally wear about a 10.5 or 11US street shoe, and I have two pairs of climbing shoes: 42.5 Miuras (lace) and 43 Vipers (slip on). I also just ordered some Mythos in 42.5 since I wanted to try something less aggressive for longer days. According to their chart, 42.5 is a tad smaller than 9.5US, so I'm sized about 1.5US down from my street shoe.

zappos.com has an alright selection of climbing kicks and free shipping both ways. Quick turn around too.

Sizes are all over the place. I have never had a pair of Evolvs fit me; they're always a quarter size off. I take a 10 in street shoes, 8.5 in Moccasyms, 9 in Anasazis, and an 11 in the new 5ten Team shoe.

If you buy shoes via the internet without having ever tried that model and size on in real life, you are a NOOB.

but I live in a 'shoe-free' zone in the flatlands, thus have little choice. Agree it's wise to try on any/all shoes,,,, then go buy that model for half the price on the internet!

Woodchuck ATC wrote:?? so by Sportiva logic, a Sportiva size 12 would be way too large for your foot, and would fit like a larger street shoe? Or do they intend for your toes to be doubled over for a 'proper fit' in their terms? Just more misleading confusion. Sorry, I just can't fold over my toes and expect to climb anything worthwhile. I want a shoe company to come out and say that "our designs and lasts saying size 6, will be a full size smaller than the same number 6 of your street shoe. Plan accordingly on your shoe size choice" They can't sell it sized with the intent of making you cram your foot into the tight shoe they seem to think you require. Truth in sizing I say!!

Yeah, I agree. I learned the expensive way that you do in fact climb better in comfortable shoes. The ultra tight painful shoe concept is stupid. It would be better if all the companies followed Acopa's lead when it comes to sizing.

5.10 Pitons are pretty wide toe'd, as are most Boreal shoes I hear. I like my Pitons for a comfy low key trad route any day, but they don't perform too well for technical stuff.

Just had my worst experience with climbing shoe sizing. I wear 42 in Sportiva's shoes (Katana, Miura VS).

I tried on a pair of Five Ten Dragons in a Size 44. I couldn't even fit my foot in!!!

How can they be sooooooo far apart? A standard needs to be set.

Standard? Like the one for women's clothing? Let's label the biggest ones "42". Nobody wants to wear a size bigger than that!