Eldo accident reported in DC

Condolences to the family -- and good luck the climbers who were first on the scene. I witnessed a climbing fatality at Seneca last summer. Took a few weeks to clear the cobwebs. And in that accident, it was pretty clear that the rope was cut during a lead fall by passing over a sharp flake of rock. Rare but still possible.

In any event, very sad news. I hope that a full account is published so that we can speculate less and learn more about how to be safe out there.

Brad White wrote:Dave, I think you're referring to the accident that killed Kenny Black, and if I remember correctly it was a block that was pulled off (on an attempt at a new route) that cut his rope. (As opposed to the rope running over an edge.)

Thanks Brad, that is exactly the accident, I just couldn't remember all the details. I do know that it was enough of a concern--his single rope being cut--that I started climbing with double ropes, at least on some routes in Eldo and other places with similar loose rock and topography issues.

Sadly, cut ropes are likely to become more common as climbers have become infatuated with lighter and skinnier lines. There is no standard for cut resistance and the UIAA rope test is inadequate for predicting durability. The problem is worse for heavier climbers (and alpine climbers wearing packs) since all the testing is based on a 165 lb person.

In this case, details of the fall (distance, what pulled, even the brand and model of rope) don't really matter. The most relevant info is diameter of the rope and the weight of the climber.

Condolences to Joe's family and friends.

Clyde wrote:Sadly, cut ropes are likely to become more common as climbers have become infatuated with lighter and skinnier lines.

How about keeping your speculation about the deceased climber's "infatuation" to yourself until you have some facts to back it up?

JL

Clyde wrote:Sadly, cut ropes are likely to become more common as climbers have become infatuated with lighter and skinnier lines.

I think he was just saying it generically saxfiend. No need for flames, this is a damn sad thing for all I'm sure. Hopefully something helpful to others can be learned after the investigation.

I have 2 questions:
1st) What was the brand, model and age of his rope?

2nd) What was the brand, model and age of the rope that cut recently at Seneca and lead to a fatality there?

Anyone?

saxfiend wrote: How about keeping your speculation about the deceased climber's "infatuation" to yourself until you have some facts to back it up? JL

"Infatuation" may not be the right word, but I'm not even sure you could buy a 9.2mm single rope when I started climbing.

I agree that an edge test should be standardized, or at least researched and discussed.

When I started climbing 11mm (and 7/16") were the standards for singles. Then for a decade or so 10.5mm became the rope everyone climbed with. Nowadays, it's uncommon for people (outside of schools, etc) to use ropes over 10mm and many are using far smaller cord for trad; a 10.2 is considered fat. However ropes have not improved in cut resistance, just in their ability to meet the drop test.

The UIAA had an "edge test" for a short while but there were too many flaws so it was abandoned. Turned out pretty much all 10.5 and larger ropes could pass, even without the reinforced sheaths. Don't think there is any ongoing discussion to develop a better test. If they did the drop test with 100kg instead of 80kg, a realistic scenario (200 lb climber plus gear), a lot of current ropes wouldn't fare well.

Cases like this *should* make climbers think about their rope choice, even if it turns out he was using a burly brand new 10.5. Sometimes fat ropes, or doubles or twins, are a better option. Not falling is always the best option.

I can't see how 1.5 mm's of nylon will make a difference if you whip the rope over a sharp flake.

Mike Lane wrote:I can't see how 1.5 mm's of nylon will make a difference if you whip the rope over a sharp flake.

I'm not sure that I totally disagree with you, but just think that a 10.5mm rope has nearly 10 more millimeters of circumference than a 9mm and roughly 23 millimeters² of increased area. Barring my math and logic is correct, that's quite a bit more material to cut clear through. I'd agree with you completely if we were talking flat, relatively 2-D webbing.

Again, no disrespect to the fallen climber. My heart goes out to the friends and family.

moved: rope edge & diameter comments

Condolences to the family and friends of the climber. Unfortunate, no matter what the exact details of the accident are. Peace be with him and you.

I'll open a new topic on this.

Edge Testing Standardization for Ropes

Condolences to the family, and friends of Joseph. Having lost a best friend, and climbing partner so full of life (as Joseph sounds like he was) in a tragic climbing accident a few short years ago, I truly know the pain runs long, and deep. May you find peace.

As many of you know, Rocky Mountain Rescue Group (RMRG) conducts investigations of most of the accidents (climbing or otherwise) that result in mountain rescues in Boulder County. We do this to assist law enforcement and the coroner in fulfilling their duties to investigate, to gather information for friends and family, and to provide information and education to the public. Often there is only short window after a rescue in which to gather information and we sometimes request that an area is closed for this short time period. At this time Yellow Spur has been re-opened as we have concluded gathering information from the scene after the accident of June 22nd.

RMRG appreciates your patience while we go through the process of analyzing the data gathered, preparing an accurate report, and working with the necessary authorities and family. We strive to provide information to the public as quickly as possible, but must balance this with compassion for victims’ family and friends, the timetable of law enforcement and coroner investigations, and the time available to our volunteers who are often responding to missions. Once the proper steps have been taken RMRG may publish a report on our website (www.RockyMountainRescue.org) and post a link on this forum.

We encourage anyone who has first hand information that may assist RMRG in evaluating any accident to contact us at contact@RockyMountainRescue.org. Likewise, thanks to everyone on this and past investigations who has allowed RMRG to ask seemingly endless and inconsequential questions after terrible ordeals.

Regards,
Kelly Lucy, Group Leader
Rocky Mountain Rescue Group

Kelly: Thank you for all the hard work that you and your colleagues at Rocky Mountain Rescue Group do. SAR teams, both paid & volunteers, are awesome.

May God guide and bless your rest Joseph. Condolences and prayers for his wife and family.

Was there ever any follow up info from the accident report about what happened here? Just curious about the facts, I've heard too many inconsistent stories from the rumor mill,

All the best to the families and friends involved,

Hi - this is Lara Miller, Joe's wife (I am using his account). Tomorrow marks a month since his fall and death. I wanted to let you know that it has been wonderful to read all of the comments, condolences and support in this thread (unlike some of the comments in the DC). I, myself, am not part of the climbing community, only through Joe, so it was so sweet to see the camaraderie among fellow climbers.

There seem to have been lots of questions and speculation. Joe was leading the 2nd pitch of the Yellow Spur and had about 5 pieces (I am not sure of the number) of protection in when he fell and pulled only one piece and his rope was then cut across some part of rock and he fell about 80 feet to his death. The rope was not cut 3 feet from his harness, although I do not know the exact distance. He fall was never caught as the rope was cut before. The rope did not break, it was cut. The rope was fine before the cut. Joe was an amazingly safe climber. So safe that he irritated some that climbed with him. This is just one of those freak accidents that everyone fears. Other than not climbing that day, nothing could/should have been done differently. And yes, he did die doing what he loved and he loved it so much that I can't even imagine loosing him any other way.

We celebrated his beautiful life last Saturday and are working towards healing and finding our way. His climbing partner, who was with him, is close with our family and we plan to remain close and support each other.

Thanks you again for all of the kind words and wishes.

Love and Peace, Lara

Lara - thanks for your post, and for the clarification. I am very sorry for your loss.

Wally

Just wondering if there was ever a full account of this accident that was published.
Having done this route numerous times I'm very curious as to how and where the rope was cut and if this was a guided ascent. I hope the family of the fallen climber are healing.

jack roberts wrote:Just wondering if there was ever a full account of this accident that was published. Having done this route numerous times I'm very curious as to how and where the rope was cut and if this was a guided ascent. I hope the family of the fallen climber are healing.

Hey Jack, I actually emailed RMRG about it earlier this week and they stated that they are still finalizing the analysis on the accident. Unfortunately they've had a busy summer this year.