cragging with a baby

The Larry wrote:Get one of those baby backpacks and climb with the little nipper. Excellent training. Jim Yoder use to free solo with his new born in one of those.

I always thought Yoder was nuts. Now I know he was outward stupid.

This idea has come and gone a few times. My wife used to belay 1 pitch climbs when the youngest was in a basket or car seat, but quit when she was mobile. My climbing decreased a lot, but picked up a few years later. They're only young once.

My favorite story is the couple I kept meeting in j-tree one year; they brought a play-pen. Which, they inverted on a blanket and loaded down with rocks while they where doing clean, one-pitch routes. That kid is probably 18 now and either knocks down hard routes or isn't the least interested... you never know.

Do the best you can, don't piss-off your wife, lower your expectations a bit and do what you can; you'll get back to it. Kids join our lives, not ends them.

I'm a grandfather of 3; I'm looking forward to getting out with them, when/if they're interested.

Thanks all for the responses. Good point about the third person not necessarily minding the child(ren). Good suggestions also about climbing team members, will have to keep that in mind.

Mike, the "rope gun" photo is awesome.

Lee is absolutely correct about Boulder-area climbing. Even Flagstaff Mountain where I boulder a lot, which has relatively safe terrain, is loaded with broken glass and other trash from drunken a**hole partiers. Boulder Canyon and Clear Creek are convenient but hazardous to the small fry. Lee is spot on about crowds around Boulder as well as the other issues. Just because it's close, doesn't mean it's kid-friendly. Based on memories of the place, the San Luis Valley seems the most favorable spot for climbing with kids between 2 and 6. Lots of flat terrain, short approaches, short sport routes. Long drive from Boulder though. Other suggestions?

I had the little one pulling on my arm last time, so I did not get to listing areas.

• If memory serves, I think Turkey Tail would actually be a pretty good hang, though I mostly went on weekdays and do not know how busy it gets on weekends.
• The blowouts at Garden of the Gods could provide a good pump and the area is pretty contained, it's hard to break pockets.
• Penitente could be good though it might be hard to find shade, lots of sunscreen and a flap happy should cover that though.
• Carter Lake could be good along the rim area, I don't remember it being dirty, maybe Horsetooth Res but I've only been there once and it was ages ago.

A lot of times it depends on how interactive you or whomever is watching the child is able to be, the less interactive the more room they need to play. Trust me, as a stay at home dad I know how hard it can be to be on your A or even B game with the kiddo all the time. Sometimes you just want to be able to watch them and make sure they don't get into trouble and not be constantly distracting them because if you don't they will get into trouble.

I've found that I climb a bit less than I used to. Before it was 8-12 pitches a day at the crags for myself and 4-5 for my wife (if you know her, this is totally fair, she takes about 3 times as long to climb a route). Now it is 6-8 a day for me and 4-5 for my wife. This is still enough climbing though I do find that when I'm lucky enough to get out on my own with friends I lack the fitness to climb hard all day anymore, go figure.

We just got a full body harness a few months ago and typically take this and hoist the kid up and swing him around for a little bit every couple of hours which he loves.

Not to be an "a hole" within this forum..... But also think about the others within the vicinity of you and baby. Babies cry, I'm not a baby person!!!! They require too much time and energy and money that could go into climbing. I would be pissed off if a party and their "darling" little one in tow camped within my climbing vicinity and I took a whipper or happened to fall or for that matter had to hear the thing crying and fussing about while I'm trying to to climb. Maybe you and others with little things should stick to the climbing gyms. Not trying to be a dick, but I know myself enough that I would say something to the offending party: and I know it wouldn't be nice. Why are so many people so keyed on having their own babies??? There are so many to adopt, it's almost like the humain society( oops, sorry, 'dumb friends league') even though there are dogs/cats smarter than both the parents and kids combined. Why aren't there more adoptions? Dumb people wanting to expand the gene pool I guess.... Sorry for sounding too negative for some, but keep the baby where it belongs; Safe and AT HOME!!!!!

Just read the post just prior to mine. The cage, now that's funny!! Maybe you, well not you, but who ever has the thing, well you could make money be charging people to poke at it through the cage. Like a...... Well not going there..... I know I'm going to offend people with my post, and that's fine... I'm not too worried about it. It's not like infants are bad within their own right, but I think parents don't realize; infants just don't give a shit. All they know is, eating, crying, and shitting. They don't care who they offend, hell they don't know a damn thing. Ok, I'll stop now, just keep them at home. You want to go climbing, hire a baby sitter, the economy could use a few more employed people anyway.....

no1nprtclr wrote:Not to be an "a hole" within this forum..... But also think about the others within the vicinity of you and baby. Babies cry, I'm not a baby person!!!! They require too much time and energy and money that could go into climbing. I would be pissed off if a party and their "darling" little one in tow camped within my climbing vicinity and I took a whipper or happened to fall or for that matter had to hear the thing crying and fussing about while I'm trying to to climb. Maybe you and others with little things should stick to the climbing gyms. Not trying to be a dick, but I know myself enough that I would say something to the offending party: and I know it wouldn't be nice. Why are so many people so keyed on having their own babies??? There are so many to adopt, it's almost like the humain society( oops, sorry, 'dumb friends league') even though there are dogs/cats smarter than both the parents and kids combined. Why aren't there more adoptions? Dumb people wanting to expand the gene pool I guess.... Sorry for sounding too negative for some, but keep the baby where it belongs; Safe and AT HOME!!!!!

• For starters, how is a crying baby any different from someone throwing a wobbler when they don't send??? Or a group of dogs pissing on your pack or fighting around your feet while you belay???
• Hiding behind a not so clever call tag is petty.
• Climbing gyms are about the worst because they are the most crowded. Parents should be looking for "less crowded" areas to climb at with kids, of course this is subjective to where you live and climb.
• Commenting on peoples intelligence...well I guess that is why you have have to hide. You would never have the balls to do that with your real name and risk running into someone at the crag.
• Saying people are selfish for wanting to have kids and yet you are being completely selfish by spending all your money on climbing for yourself. I agree that having kids is selfish but you are being a hypocrite, everyone has their wants and desires. Not to mention that you want the crag to be your own playground and nothing to interfere with it, more selfishness.
• Adoption is expensive...up to $30,000. Might explain why people are not jumping up and down to adopt.

Have fun climbing but realize that climbing happens in public spaces and that means that you have to deal with other people. Or with all the cash you are saving by not having a child go buy your own crag and you can ban children.

A couple things...
1. People commented on how not many women had replied to this post, the ironic thing is that my wife (due in 4 days) was the one who posted this under my profile name. Glad she did and thanks so much for all the replies.
2. Some great points on climbing with 3, aware of rockfall etc., not being upset with less climbing and so on... all great points.
3. no1nprtclr. 1st of all, if my baby is fussy I will not sit there and let her cry at a busy crag. Furthermore I will not even plan on going to a busy crag with her in the 1st place. Overpopulation is a big issue and please lets not go too far with this but are you not happy to be on this earth? lighten up!
4. I live in Northern Co and there are a fair amount of places I had in mind. Vedauwoo, ironclads, Marys bust, a few random roadside pullouts, Combat rock, Jurassic park, lots of bouldering and so on.

Yup, knew I would get flack. And that's ok. Like I pointed out, I'm not a baby person. I'm not all that fond of infants. I don't have the patience or desire for them: for me they take Way too much time and energy that I would rather spend on something else. And Lee, guess what, we as humans are ALL hypocrites. I'm not sure we can get away from it. And my name is Juan, sorry for the omission, it was late when I spewed and was tired. You mention dogs fighting around my feet while belaying, thankfully thus far hasn't happened. If it did though, well, I doubt it would happen as I do my best to avoid climbing within the vicinity of people and their dogs. For the most part, I like this site, but damn, it's almost as bad as the government, how many administrators does one site need? Lol.... Oh and your wrong, I understand that the crags aren't my own. Wrong again about the sharing thing, but I guess it's easy to retort when you don't know someone. Get to know someone before spewing you own vile opinions about people you don't know!! And no I'm not afraid of posting my name in fear of running into people at the crags. I realize adoption is expensive now days. I am adopted, wasn't that expensive but again that was back in 1981. Also put a youngling up for adoption, mid 1990's. Also at that time wasn't that expensive compared to today's prices. Too bad people feel their worth more than their worth, paper pushing gets expensive. That's perhaps why we're digging our own hole in this country. Sorry to stray a little from the OP topic.

As far as the other comment about me not being happy on this earth, oh for those who do not know me, which is A LOT of people on this site: 'tis not true. For the most part I am a pretty mellow guy and am for the most part happy and an accepting guy.

I realized I would get flack for my comments... And of course I am and will get more. Like I said, I'm not particularly fond of infants. Good luck with your kiddo though. Teach them good stewardship, we all know this 'earth' needs it. Haven't found another that we could mess up, yet.....

It's ok for other comments thrown my way. But I'm not likely going to check back to this post to find what they are. Good day....

Juan

LeeAB - Thank you for clearly confronting the absurdities put forth by no1nprtclr. I want to second everything you said. I will only add that just because I don't like selfish, loud a*holes at the crag/gym doesn't mean that I can ask them to stay home either. (I also support neutering this portion of the population but that idea just hasn't caught on yet.)

Get over it no1nprtclr, the world doesn't revolve around you. If you want rock to yourself, buy a crag! Don't tell others how they should live their lives so that yours can be more pleasant.

BTW I second Juan about parents bringing obnoxious kids to the cliffs; they are a lot like dogs and should be left home if they can't behave. However complaining about children in general is not productive. Everyone was a child once and greatly annoyed somebody at some time. Like it or not we all have this debt to repay by being patient with young kids when we encounter them and/or have them. So deal.

One of the classic old-school whines is about how young kids don't understand the way it was in climbing BITD or don't respect the past. How many of these climbers have actually taken the trouble to reach out to younger generations and stay in touch with what's going on? The closer you look at today's climbers, the better they seem, and certainly no worse than those of the past. No better way to have good climbers, in all senses of the word, than to start them young and teach them well.

Biscuits, Congrats on the baby! We know your wife from hanging around Estes and we are expecting a girl in September so we will be getting her out as soon as possible. Children that have an early introduction to the outdoors and climbing seem to keep that love through their life, so we are excited to get her out. I think that P. Beal put it very well.

biscuits,
If your wife is willing to take the kid cragging, you're golden. Have fun. Lots of good advice from others on this thread about what to consider to have a successful trip. To be honest, if the crags were closer and we had a third person to help, we may have gotten some crag time in. Your circumstances seem pretty different, so enjoy.

I'm not really sure what to make of no1nprtclr...

• He clearly states that people with kids should stay away from the crag for his convenience, so that he might not fall because of them. Then goes onto say he has no problem with sharing. Furthermore, because he does not like dogs he purposely avoids areas where they are, but with children they just should not be there so he does not have to avoid them???
• He says he is not trying to be a D**K, though he clearly is trying
• There is no retorting, only reading. Maybe if a bit more though was put into what you posted people would take you more seriously.
• Spewing vile opinions? All I did was point out what you wrote, not to mention that you were the one doing it.

Anyway, the more crowded a crag is the more likely you are to run into someone like this that thinks you should play by their rules, yet are willing to move around to avoid dogs but not families and are in general a pain. If only people were so willing to act when it comes to obnoxious climbers that will not let you get on a route because they are working it and shouting obscenities at the cliff, blaming their shoes or whatever for the lack of a send.

I agree that kids should be taught how to behave at the cliff, but there is always a learning curve and any good parent should be willing to cut a day short if the little one can not behave, the same as one would with a child throwing a fit in the store.

On another note, some other crags that are good or not with a kid.

• Red River Gorge, some are great, like Drive-By, others are OK, like Purgatory and others are terrible, like the Motherload. Nice cabin rentals in the area as well.
• Rodellar, Spain is pretty good since you can hang in the river bed for many of the
• I did not see anything at the New River Gorge that I would consider all that good, though I only went to Honeymooner Ladder, Glory Hole and Summersville Lake.
• Riemer Ranch outside of Austin, though not really a destination, is good.
• Yose and Tuolumne are difficult especially since the mosquitos can turn the little one into a raisin by draining their blood.
• Indian Creek is pretty bad, most Moab crags really, though Big Bend is doable if you are passing through.
• Rifle?? short approaches, creek to play in, flat bases but there is a bit of loose rock.

LeeAB wrote:

Thats so awesome. The younger kids are exposed to climbing the better. Two thumbs up!

I can only imagine what no1 was like as a kid.....oh, wait a minute, he still is like that.

My dad always told me "We most hate to see in others, what we really hate in ourselves"

On another note, some other crags that are good or not with a kid.
*I did not see anything at the New River Gorge that I would consider all that good, though I only went to Honeymooner Ladder, Glory Hole and Summersville Lake. *Riemer Ranch outside of Austin, though not really a destination, is good. *Indian Creek is pretty bad, most Moab crags really, though Big Bend is doable if you are passing through.

• Summersville - we took our daughter there before she could walk. The ladder is manageable as it's pretty short but there is not much space at the base of most crags there. I'd skip this. The Honeymooner's ladders would be plain unsafe if one was carrying a kid in a backpack.
• Seneca - forget it.
• Reimer's - would be OK but is a bit crowded. Enchanted Rock is probably safer.
• Indian Creek - both kids have been to the base of one of the walls but we had to bail after one pitch. It's just too steep and narrow there. Although my daughter was delighted to find that the base of the cliff came equipped with "sidewalk chalk". Similar situation at Colorado National Monument.
• Gunks - if you can climb near to the carriage road, then the road is a safe place for the kids to hang out. There are a few other spots with wide enough base areas - bottom of Jackie, for example.
• Peterskill (near Gunks) - great. You can get away from the cliff, be within eyesight, and it's not too crowded.
• Unaweep (western Colorado) - our kids have been there once but most of it is really not suitable. The base is mostly narrow, the slopes are loosely consolidated boulders and dirt and there is a lot of hidden cactus.
• Hartman's (Gunnison, CO) - never actually climbed there but there are cliffs which are essentially giant rounded granite boulders with huge bases. Minimal rockfall potential and no crowding. Looks safe for kids.
• JTree - great. Plenty of cliffs with ample bases. Small boulders for kids to play around on. At Indian Cove there is a huge alcove which is perfect for managing kids (and, no, one is not crowding out any classic routes at this particular alcove either).
• City of Rocks - would be perfect if there were just a small creek somewhere near the crags. Some cliffs there are definitely not suitable but there are plenty of cliffs with a configuration like Practice Rock. You can get the kids safely back from the cliff and they even have their own small boulders.

Another option:

Thought I'd add this link as another example as parents climbing with their baby.